82 replies to this topic

[Kingdok]

Tincan Nightmare, on 05 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Yep for a base number of 10 heat sinks, while more sinks equal higher percentage of heat loss. So for a mech with 15 sinks it is now around 50 percent. Now which mechs are more likely to mount a high number of heat sinks? Could it be the mechs that are going heavy on energy weapons. And they haven't stated wether it works differently in regards to single or double sinks. Could having DHS give you a bigger cool off? Even if the answer is no to that last question, it still doesn't change the fact that now players can drastically cut their heat levels in a fight, allowing them to continue firing past the point where they would either shutdown or have to reduce/stop their firing. Why encourage players to use a playstyle of heavy alpha loads and poor heat management they can buy their way around? I could care less about people saying it is P2W, I think its a poor game mechanic since heat is a major balancing issue that one must consider when in the mechbay, except now high energy loads will become even more common to use. Did energy weapons really need a buff at this point in the form of a consumable to remove their one major drawback? Guess deciding wether to mount a heat sink or a med. laser got easier depending on how many module slots you got.

I'm not worried about the effect coolant flushing will have on my stomping experience. If someone decides to stack more energy weapons on his ride just because he has a ONE-SHOT 35% cooling boost module, then he is just asking for pain. Yes, he may have an extra alpha strike available in the middle of a vigorous firefight. After pulling the trigger on that coolant flush, however, he is left with a weapon config that cannot be used to its potential in the remainder of the fight.

I'll probably mount the CB versions of this module in my Stalkers, for those times when I really just need to hit the big red button and blast away. It will not be a major tactical feature for me, and it will never influence the way I (badly) build mechs.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Kingdok, on 05 March 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I'm not worried about the effect coolant flushing will have on my stomping experience. If someone decides to stack more energy weapons on his ride just because he has a ONE-SHOT 35% cooling boost module, then he is just asking for pain. Yes, he may have an extra alpha strike available in the middle of a vigorous firefight. After pulling the trigger on that coolant flush, however, he is left with a weapon config that cannot be used to its potential in the remainder of the fight.

I'll probably mount the CB versions of this module in my Stalkers, for those times when I really just need to hit the big red button and blast away. It will not be a major tactical feature for me, and it will never influence the way I (badly) build mechs.

people won't be adding more weaponry... they'll simply beable to alpha with their existing weaponry on builds that normally couldn't alpha as much.

The issue sits with coolant flush as a "Tacked on" mechanic, MW3 had coolant flush as an intrigal mechanic, and it worked, if you flushed coolant, you took a hit to overall cooling ability because the liquid that helped you cool is no longer in your mech.

MWO won't have that, and frankly, coolant's just a bad idea, bad on the level of 3rd person view bad.

[Phoenix Gray]

Wow, it's almost like PGI was in this to make money or something...

[Bryan Kerensky]

I'll repeat what I said in another topic

I have no issues with it being MC only or what not. I take issue with the implementation of the coolant pods altogether.

Quote

Each coolant pod weighs one ton and takes up one critical spot. For each turn a coolant pod is active, each heat sink (no matter if single or double) dissipates 1 extra heat point. Only one pod may be used per turn. If a full/unusued pod is struck, the pod causes internal damage (Unbound/Tactical Handbook = 20 point, Maximum Tech/Tactical Operations = 10 points) just like an ammunition explosion

Quote

Coolant pods are highly susceptible to weapon fire, a fully pressurized pod will rupture and cause internal damage in the same manner of an ammunition explosion if struck. To avoid over-pressurizing and damaging the coolant systems of the equipped 'Mech, for safety reasons only one pod can be engaged at a time, though multiple pods can be carried. The violent release of coolant is damaging enough to the strained cooling systems of BattleMechs, the fragile modular coolant systems aboard OmniMechs consistently fail under the strain despite years of research by the Clans.

It would be far more easy to balance as an internal item that took up crit space in a mech and actually weighed something and could be a risk to use, making people at least think twice before using it. As it is, we might as well use it because almost all the modules are currently rather useless.

It may not be a must, but it could very well be a 'might as well'.

FFS if you want to do something P2W or not, at least do it right.

Edited by Bryan Kerensky, 05 March 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Bilbo]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

people won't be adding more weaponry... they'll simply beable to alpha with their existing weaponry on builds that normally couldn't alpha as much.

The issue sits with coolant flush as a "Tacked on" mechanic, MW3 had coolant flush as an intrigal mechanic, and it worked, if you flushed coolant, you took a hit to overall cooling ability because the liquid that helped you cool is no longer in your mech.

MWO won't have that, and frankly, coolant's just a bad idea, bad on the level of 3rd person view bad.

Once or twice for the c-bill version. And that depends greatly on how heat efficient the mech is to begin with. I have mechs where these modules wouldn't help in the least. They just generate too much heat on an alpha, which of course is why I rarerly, if ever, alpha strike anything. I won't be wasting c-bills or cash on these. I'll get more value out of the sensor modules already installed.

[Phoenix Gray]

So don't buy the one-shot coolant flush. Don't want to use it, outfit your 'Mech with less heat-intensive options.

Airstrike3, Artillery3, USS IOWA3 too expensive? Buy 1 or 2 and plan your tactics around them, or use them in combo. That's probably more efficient anyway. An overpowered airstrike will waste a lot of ordnance. Two smaller strikes lets you go back and pick up what you miss.

[Iacov]

in my opinion, the P2W aspect is, that it is not a one time purchase, but a recurring purchase would be needed to "keep up an equivalent performance"...so if i want to use coolant flushs in every match i'd have to grind the cr*p out of MWO or invest real money...again and again for something that should be considered as a "game mechanic"...

i'm one of those that is willing to pay money for his hobby...that's why i pay for hero mechs
i might have been okay with making a one time purchase for a coolant flush module
but buy it over and over again? no way, that's just a sucker punch

[Phoenix Gray]

That Guy, on 05 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

i dont care about P2W right now.

i care about coolant. coolant sucks, and should not be in the game. period

Yeah! Heat is OP! Devs should eliminate the laws of physics!

Tarrasque, on 05 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

I want to live where you are, that 'drastic' entails 35% of something.

I think he works for the Federal Government.

Edited by Phoenix Gray, 05 March 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[LordDante]

pshhhht..,.,

[Bounty Dogg]

Ok, have to chime in here.

Its once.....per match.....thats it.

Some will say thats not the point. Others will say that even that once is too much. Im saying...its once....per match. They cant do it forever, and it buys them leeway....once....per match. While the Cbill version lets you do some cooling twice per match. yes, they both aren't the same amount, but they both DO equal up to 35%.....and get the bonus of allowing you SOME flushing twice in a match.

While the MC flush is more powerful in one shot....you only get that one shot...thats it. You cant recharge it during a match...you cant spam it during a match....it gets you taht one shot....thats it.

The Cbill you cant really spam either. it gets you two shots, but for diminished returns......or spam them for the same amount of cooling as the MC one. You get two shots with it....make em count.

Yes, you lose an extra module slot for the cbill one......thats cus you get more out of the cbill one, IMO, than you do with the MC one.....in the staggered use nature of the item. That goes a longer way, IMO, than the MC one, making the Cbill one a better value.

Air strikes, artillery strikes, dont have a comment on.....not cause I think they'll be OP, cus I dont know any details bout em yet.....I dont know how much damage theyll do, I dont know how they'll work, I dont know how many 'mechs can be affected...hell I dont know how the TARGETING of them will go (though I do have some ideas). Ive got no information on them other than the fact that they'll be in the game, so not commenting on them.

In my mind, this is not a P2W case...but another PFC case (Pay For Convenience): Getting similar benefit for less work (1 slot instead of 2). It is not better in my mind, due to what i stated earlier, but it is similar.

[MightyMeatShield]

Coolant flush as planned: one-shot (per module per match); instant decrease in heat by a set percentage; tier 1 and 2 can stack together, but tier 3s can never stack with tier 1 or 2.

Why do people seem to think it's going to be implemented as if you can use it as many times as you want in a single match or that you can trigger little bits of it at a time until it runs out?

Coolant pods of TT lore worked over time and weren't instant, much in the same way as the flush in MW4 where you had a set reserve and can expend as little or as much as you saw fit. The MW4 mechanic is the implementation of coolant flush/pods that the devs didn't want to introduce. You can glean that from the past Q&A. This implementation has a different usage mechanic.

[Bounty Dogg]

armyof1, on 05 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Yeah because flushing 15% heat helps a lot for the worst heat-building mechs that are those that need coolants in the first place. I'm just waiting for a PPC stalker to wreck you within seconds with 3 alphas while going through MC coolants and see if you still think it's all fine and dandy.

.......you get ONE MC shot....thats it....per match......they cant reuse it per match.....once per match. so they get one extra shot earlier, or later....but not all the time...thats it......

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bounty Dogg, on 05 March 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Ok, have to chime in here.

Its once.....per match.....thats it.

Some will say thats not the point. Others will say that even that once is too much. Im saying...its once....per match. They cant do it forever, and it buys them leeway....once....per match. While the Cbill version lets you do some cooling twice per match. yes, they both aren't the same amount, but they both DO equal up to 35%.....and get the bonus of allowing you SOME flushing twice in a match.

While the MC flush is more powerful in one shot....you only get that one shot...thats it. You cant recharge it during a match...you cant spam it during a match....it gets you taht one shot....thats it.

The Cbill you cant really spam either. it gets you two shots, but for diminished returns......or spam them for the same amount of cooling as the MC one. You get two shots with it....make em count.

Yes, you lose an extra module slot for the cbill one......thats cus you get more out of the cbill one, IMO, than you do with the MC one.....in the staggered use nature of the item. That goes a longer way, IMO, than the MC one, making the Cbill one a better value.

Air strikes, artillery strikes, dont have a comment on.....not cause I think they'll be OP, cus I dont know any details bout em yet.....I dont know how much damage theyll do, I dont know how they'll work, I dont know how many 'mechs can be affected...hell I dont know how the TARGETING of them will go (though I do have some ideas). Ive got no information on them other than the fact that they'll be in the game, so not commenting on them.

In my mind, this is not a P2W case...but another PFC case (Pay For Convenience): Getting similar benefit for less work (1 slot instead of 2). It is not better in my mind, due to what i stated earlier, but it is similar.

Actually it's stated that the C-bill version will give you two flushes at different % levels [one 15% and one 20%] The "gold" flush is 35% one time...

The complaint is NOT about pay 2 win, it's about coolant.

[Bilbo]

armyof1, on 05 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Yeah because flushing 15% heat helps a lot for the worst heat-building mechs that are those that need coolants in the first place. I'm just waiting for a PPC stalker to wreck you within seconds with 3 alphas while going through MC coolants and see if you still think it's all fine and dandy.

Disregarding the fact that he can only flush the coolant once, are you really going to let that ppc stalker hit you with 3 alphas in a row. Your problem isn't the coolant flush in that case.

[Bounty Dogg]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Actually it's stated that the C-bill version will give you two flushes at different % levels [one 15% and one 20%] The "gold" flush is 35% one time...

The complaint is NOT about pay 2 win, it's about coolant.

Not to dispute what youre saying, but Im not sure WHAT the uproar is about. You look at one poster, its P2W. You look at another, its about the Airstrikes/arty strikes. Look at yet another, its about MCs. Look at another, its about the percentage on teh flushes. Look at another, it intimates that the flushes can be used more than the listed times.

People are reacting negatively in a multitude of ways that are, IMO, not necessary.

And on an aside, I did cover that fact that you mentioned in my post, just without numbers. Sorry if it came out confusing.

[Super Mono]

Wait until there's more gold modules, so that while the free version is taking up two module slots the premium items can be boated as they're more space efficient.

if you're too thick too figure out where this will lead then go ahead and let PGI boil that frog.

[Bounty Dogg]

Super Mono, on 05 March 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Wait until there's more gold modules, so that while the free version is taking up two module slots the premium items can be boated as they're more space efficient.

if you're too thick too figure out where this will lead then go ahead and let PGI boil that frog.

...Haven't had Frog's legs in a while....sounds tasty!

[Thuzel]

xRatas, on 05 March 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

It seems to have fixed the ECM and Catapult though. No one complains about those anymore...

lol, Yeah! I'm gonna break my arm so I won't notice this concussion anymore

[Kingdok]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

people won't be adding more weaponry... they'll simply beable to alpha with their existing weaponry on builds that normally couldn't alpha as much.

The issue sits with coolant flush as a "Tacked on" mechanic, MW3 had coolant flush as an intrigal mechanic, and it worked, if you flushed coolant, you took a hit to overall cooling ability because the liquid that helped you cool is no longer in your mech.

MWO won't have that, and frankly, coolant's just a bad idea, bad on the level of 3rd person view bad.

Smart people won't be adding more weaponry... and that extra alpha will apply once. If someone really feels like pulling dollars out of their pocket and inserting them into MWO for a little advantage like that, then they are not bothering me any. PGI needs the money more than they do, apparently. The way the flush mechanic seems to be designed, I don't think it's going to help the feebs much.

please allow me to agree with this general speculation: mucking around with the cooling system without requiring tonnage or space in the mech is a strange concept. I don't like that idea, but I am waiting to see how the fine folks at PGI are planning to work this out.

Edited by Kingdok, 05 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Gevurah]

Itka, on 05 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's still 2 slots for same effect as one slot T3. P2W

And they're both a waste of a module slot. So yeah, your math adds up, until put into light of "do I want to waste a precious module slot on this piece of crap" - to which the answer for any kind of coolant flush is no.

The only flushing I'll be doing is my money down the toilet as I buy airstrikes/arty.