82 replies to this topic

[Vrekgar]

Personally I dont see a problem with any of the consumables.

If Johnny Moneybags wants to spend a quarter every time he P2W flushes then why is that so bad? The utility of the flush mechanic is extremely limited and to use this "Maximum Effectiveness" your going to be spending nickels and dimes for a single extra attack?

Thats just not that valuable at all.

The Strikes will be interesting but until we know more about them its probably not going to be that big a deal either.

[Aym]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Ohh, I'm 5% off... oh lordy what am I gonna do.

You'll still be shunting the heat fast enough it won't matter when overridden... the point is, I'm still getting 3 alpha's off vs the 2 that the MC module allows for. So... EXCUSE ME PRINCESS.

even at 105% after second coolant flush, that's still easily sunk by the standard 10 heatsinks in half a second. If you have the pilot skills, even faster.

Way to ignore the point. If you're waiting time for the heat to dissipate then the 35% all at once can wait the 5 seconds and alpha twice w/out overheating. THAT'S the POINT ar-tard.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Aym, on 05 March 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Way to ignore the point. If you're waiting time for the heat to dissipate then the 35% all at once can wait the 5 seconds and alpha twice w/out overheating. THAT'S the POINT ar-tard.

And you're missing the point that regardless, if heat is properly managed, it doesn't matter there's still an extra alpha in there.

Also personal attacks make you soo edgy and credible.

[Fut]

Itka, on 05 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's still 2 slots for same effect as one slot T3. P2W

Here's a question:
The other multi-level modules stack upon themselves, don't they?
I mean, if you get Target Decay Rank 1, then purchase Rank 2, it doesn't take up two module slots, does it?

So isn't it safe to assume that Coolant Rank 2 will be placed on top of Coolant Rank1, only taking up one slot but allowing the cooling effects of 1+2?

Guess that turned out to be three questions...

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Fut, on 05 March 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Here's a question:
The other multi-level modules stack upon themselves, don't they?
I mean, if you get Target Decay Rank 1, then purchase Rank 2, it doesn't take up two module slots, does it?

So isn't it safe to assume that Coolant Rank 2 will be placed on top of Coolant Rank1, only taking up one slot but allowing the cooling effects of 1+2?

Guess that turned out to be three questions...

The way it was explained in the dev update post was that the c-bill only modules will be 2 flushes, one at 15% and one at 20%, atleast that's how it reads.

[Joanna Conners]

I don't see any advantage to it. I already manage my heat effectively. If someone needs coolant to match my rate of fire, then I'm still going to beat them. One extra salvo is not going to save a crappy pilot except for once and a rare while.

This isn't pay to win. It's "pay to not suck quite as much, but still probably lose most of the time".

[MaddMaxx]

It would be extremely interesting to get some data on those who are currently griping about the 2 slot vs 1 slot usage and see how many of their Mechs currently carry modules, if any, and how many.

As for Flush, the numbers are not great over-all. What it appears to be, (since it ain't out yet) is more another button to push, instead of the Over-Ride button. If my Mech is running at 90% of max and I push the 15% button, I lose 13.5% of my current Heat load. If I hit it again, having loaded both both, my current 76.5% is reduced by 20% more and now I am at 61% and am out of Coolant.

Hell I can go from 90% max heat to 61% just by taking cover for 20 seconds.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 05 March 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Joanna Conners]

MaddMaxx, on 05 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It would be extremely interesting to get some data on those who are currently griping about the 2 slot vs 1 slot usage and see how many of their Mechs currently carry modules, if any, and how many.

As for Flush, the numbers are not great over-all. What it appears to be, (since it ain't out yet) is more another button to push, instead of the Over-Ride button. If my Mech is running at 90% of max and I push the 15% button, I lose 13.5% of my current Heat load. If I hit it again, having loaded both both, my current 76.5% is reduced by 20% more and now I am at 61% and am out of Coolant.

Hell I can go from 90% max heat to 61% just by taking cover for 20 seconds.

Exactly. It's very limited in usefulness. Only very skilled pilots can use it to maximum effectiveness and how many of them are going to be worried about heat management in the first place?

It's a nice little feature for the MW3 and MW4 pilots who wanted it, but it does nothing to severely alter the game play or balance.

[Orzorn]

Vrekgar, on 05 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Personally I dont see a problem with any of the consumables.

If Johnny Moneybags wants to spend a quarter every time he P2W flushes then why is that so bad? The utility of the flush mechanic is extremely limited and to use this "Maximum Effectiveness" your going to be spending nickels and dimes for a single extra attack?

Thats just not that valuable at all.

The Strikes will be interesting but until we know more about them its probably not going to be that big a deal either.

The idea of accepting something because its "not that bad" upsets me. Its accepting the drip from the pipe because its "not that bad". What happens when the pipe bursts?

Besides that, I do think it is more than "not that bad". I think its actually very bad. That heat dump scales, and also MC gives you one extra slot. We've yet to see what MC air strikes or artillery is like, but if its anything like the current MC option for coolant, they'll give some sort of advantage. Stacking them together, I think, is going to be a significant difference between c-bill only options. We can already see that a mech with 2 module slots would have to pay MC to mix arty or air strike with coolant flushes, whereas a full power c-bill flush would take both slots.

If you can fight on the field against someone of equal skill and be of sound mind when they defeat you after dropping arty on you and coolant flushing despite their two module slots, you have the will of a saint. I, however, do not, and I'm not going to subject myself to wallet warriors when I've already given PGI a good chunk of cash to support this game from the start.

MaddMaxx, on 05 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

It would be extremely interesting to get some data on those who are currently griping about the 2 slot vs 1 slot usage and see how many of their Mechs currently carry modules, if any, and how many.

As for Flush, the numbers are not great over-all. What it appears to be, (since it ain't out yet) is more another button to push, instead of the Over-Ride button. If my Mech is running at 90% of max and I push the 15% button, I lose 13.5% of my current Heat load. If I hit it again, having loaded both both, my current 76.5% is reduced by 20% more and now I am at 61% and am out of Coolant.

Hell I can go from 90% max heat to 61% just by taking cover for 20 seconds.

Paul's post explicitly says it is based on total heat, not current heat. 15% would drop you from 90% to 75%.

Quote

CB Coolant Flush Tier 1 = 15% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.
CB Coolant Flush Tier 2 = 20% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.
TOTAL cooling of your Mech is 35%.

MC Coolant Flush = 35% cooling of TOTAL heat on your Mech.

Do not forget that it also scales.

Quote

The amount of cooling provided by a coolant flush is determined by the number of Heat Sinks in your BattleMech. The following assumes a Mech with 10 Heat Sinks:

• Large Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 35%.

If it scales linearly based on sinks, 20 sinks would allow 70% cooling in a single flush, although we've yet to hear what double heat sinks act as (whether they act as 10 or 20, for instance, if you only have 10 engine double sinks).

So, no, its much stronger than your post seems to realize.

Edited by Orzorn, 05 March 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[hammerreborn]

I'm freaking out about coolant flush because now there's not a single NERF ECM NOW OR I QUIT rage thread on the first page of the general discussion, and that's the clear mayan sign of the apocolypse.

[CygnusX7]

The forum would literally explode if the MASC module could only be bought with MC.

[Pihoqahiak]

Relic1701, on 05 March 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Or don't buy any and build a heat efficient mech! Problem solved.

Of course that's an option, but you'll have a much lower damage output by doing that. You'd basically be playing with a handicap, like teams that decide not to run at least a couple ECM mechs.

[verybad]

Itka, on 05 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

It's still 2 slots for same effect as one slot T3. P2W

Like you're gonna use them for something actually usefully otherwise?

Not that coolant is useful either.

Edited by verybad, 05 March 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Pihoqahiak]

Tarrasque, on 05 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

I want to live where you are, that 'drastic' entails 35% of something.

Uhmmm...are you trying to say that 35% is not a "drastic" amount of anything?

[LordBraxton]

WHY WASNT THIS THREAD DELETED OR MERGED WITH MAIN TOPIC?

OH YEAH IT AGREES WITH PGI LOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL

[verybad]

LordBraxton, on 05 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

WHY WASNT THIS THREAD DELETED OR MERGED WITH MAIN TOPIC?

OH YEAH IT AGREES WITH PGI LOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL

Writing bigger won't make you smarter. They'e been deleting these also. The moderator is probably in the toilet right now.

[JSArrakis]

JokerVictor, on 05 March 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

OP, in a nutshell

*clap* + F'in 1 man.

[Royalewithcheese]

Business model questions* aside, I can't see the ability to mitigate heat 1-2 times in a round as something that will turn a bad robot into a good robot. If you're doing it right, 1-2 alphas will not be a significant percentage of your damage output in a match.

*And just to be clear, I think that the issues ppl have with the P2W business model are legitimate - regardless of whether this particular game mechanic ends up being P2W or not.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 05 March 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Aym]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 March 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

And you're missing the point that regardless, if heat is properly managed, it doesn't matter there's still an extra alpha in there.

Also personal attacks make you soo edgy and credible.

Yes. yes this kettle is black-hued mr. Pot. That being said, your math is wrong and until you amend it to show real numbers giving an advantage to 15-20 as opposed to 35 straight up given Cooldown and your imagined time to dissipate heat I don't think anyone should take you seriously.

[Tarrasque]

Pihoqahiak, on 05 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Of course that's an option, but you'll have a much lower damage output by doing that. You'd basically be playing with a handicap, like teams that decide not to run at least a couple ECM mechs.

But you know what's crazy? Those teams don't win all the time. Hell, I've completely stopped keeping track of how many ECMs are on either team and I have not noticed anything wonky in my W/L.

Royalewithcheese, on 05 March 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Business model questions* aside, I can't see the ability to mitigate heat 1-2 times in a round as something that will turn a bad robot into a good robot. If you're doing it right, 1-2 alphas will not be a significant percentage of your damage output in a match.

*And just to be clear, I think that the issues ppl have with the P2W business model are legitimate - regardless of whether this particular game mechanic ends up being P2W or not.

Agreed on both points - if I get alphad twice by any mech anyways, I'm in for a world of hurt, and I made a stupid tactical decision, however, I'll reserve judgement for when that day comes.