38 replies to this topic

[Waladil]

Ok. I just noticed this. Maybe I'm misinterpreting all this. But look at these lines from the official consumable announcement:

"Coolant Flush
Coolant Flush will come in two forms; C-bill purchased and MC purchased. The following shows how the two versions are balanced:
C-Bill Purchased Coolant Flush:

The amount of cooling provided by a coolant flush is determined by the number of Heat Sinks in your BattleMech. The following assumes a Mech with 10 Heat Sinks:
Small Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 15%.
Medium Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 20%.
Coolant Flush 1 and 2 are stackable.
Each Coolant Flush will take up 1 module slot.
The C-Bill Purchased Coolant Flush will allow a player to trigger a coolant flush twice during a match.
Upon using a Coolant Flush, the player will have to re-purchase the used Coolant Flush module after the match if they wish to use it again.

MC Purchased Coolant Flush:

The amount of cooling provided by a coolant flush is determined by the number of Heat Sinks in your BattleMech. The following assumes a Mech with 10 Heat Sinks:
Large Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 35%.
Large Coolant Flush is not stackable with any other Coolant Flush module including itself.
Large Coolant Flush takes up 1 module slot.
The MC Purchased Large Coolant Flush allows a player to trigger a coolant flush once during a match.
Upon using a Large Coolant Flush, the player will have to re-purchase the used Large Coolant Flush module after the match if they wish to use it again."


Let me re-emphasize two lines:

"The C-Bill Purchased Coolant Flush will allow a player to trigger a coolant flush twice during a match.
The MC Purchased Large Coolant Flush allows a player to trigger a coolant flush once during a match."

What if, just WHAT IF this means "If you have a small coolant (15%), you can flush TWICE for 15%. If you have a medium coolant, you flush twice at 20%. If you have a large coolant, you flush once at 35%. If you have BOTH a small AND a medium, you flush TWICE at 35%.

So it's not P2W (I hope!) because paying C-Bills ONLY gets you TWICE the effectiveness of the MC, at TWICE the cost in module slots.

Edited by Waladil, 05 March 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Iacov]

it means that you can flush twice: t1 (15%) once, and t2 (20%) once

[General Taskeen]

Its still based on how many heat sinks. If you have 20 HS, that percentage jumps higher.

Plus, a Coolant Pod exists in BT. And this 'consumable' has none of its disadvantages, it takes up space, it can explode, can't be used on omni-mechs, etc.

Its a lost opportunity to add more depth to the build rules already implemented in the Mech Lab.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 March 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

You have to use both flushes to match the effectivness of the MC version. Which is where a fair portion of the rage is coming from.

[Phaesphoros]

to the OP:
TL;DR OMGWTFP2WOP. Sry, but this will NOT help. Although I think you're right about the two versions both have their advantages. IIRC it's been mwhighlander who has said: It's either meh (35% heat once <- meh) or P2W (must have, so everyone gets less C-bills or can't even buy it for every match).

Edited by Phaesphoros, 05 March 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Chavette]

What if? If it did mean that, there would be no point buying it for MC, an inferior item for real money? It would make no sense.

[Waladil]

Iacov, on 05 March 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

it means that you can flush twice: t1 (15%) once, and t2 (20%) once

Does it? Because you might just be wrong. Look again. "The C-Bill Purchased Coolant Flush will allow a player to trigger a coolant flush twice during a match." The. C-Bill. Purchased. Coolant. Flush. will. allow. a. player. to. trigger. a. coolant. flush. TWICE!!!! during. a. match. Those are the words used. It does NOT say "TWO C-bill purchased coolant flushes will allow a player to trigger two coolant flushes during a match."

General Taskeen, on 05 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Its still based on how many heat sinks. If you have 20 HS, that percentage jumps higher.

Plus, a Coolant Pod exists in BT. And this 'consumable' has none of its disadvantages, it takes up space, it can explode, can't be used on omni-mechs, etc.

The exact percentages don't matter in this case, since we're only comparing one coolant pod to another.

[Tennex]

sorry there is no rationalizing it. they've erased the P2W F2P line with this. even if tier 3 were C-bill purchasable .

pay players will have an advantage.

[Zeh]

If you're right, I would retract all my statements about P2W. However, I think you're stretching in order to make them sound good. I don't think you get 70% total cooling from stacking the C-bill version. You just get two crappier versions of the MC one.

[FromHell2k]

@OP

You don't get it, do you?


Tier 3 (MC) = 175% of Tier 2 (CB). Tier 1+2=Tier 3=2 Slots, Tier 3=1Slots. Now just add Air Strikes, Artillery...

Soooo... We've learned?
Exactly: That's a P2W-model. You're not only paying for a better consumable, you're also paying for even more advantage.

Edited by FromHell2k, 05 March 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Waladil]

Chavette, on 05 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

What if? If it did mean that, there would be no point buying it for MC, an inferior item for real money? It would make no sense.

There's still a reason to buy the MC version. If you have limited module slots, then the MC variant is probably the best for that one slot. Although the T2 one might be competitive (20% two time instead of 35% once).

Tennex, on 05 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

sorry there is no rationalizing it. they've erased the P2W F2P line with this. even if tier 3 were C-bill purchasable .

pay players will have an advantage.

I suppose that would be true with any consumable, but this is SO preferable to my old interpretation.

Astroniomix, on 05 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

You have to use both flushes to match the effectivness of the MC version. Which is where a fair portion of the rage is coming from.

No. You use both flushes to have DOUBLE the effectiveness of the MC version.

[Tarman]

http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

Read the second post in this thread.

[Critical Fumble]

Zeh, on 05 March 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

If you're right, I would retract all my statements about P2W. However, I think you're stretching in order to make them sound good. I don't think you get 70% total cooling from stacking the C-bill version. You just get two crappier versions of the MC one.

In either case, why not make them all C-bill or MC? If they had a reasonable to significant C-bill cost, they would fight the accumulation of C-bills and encourage more hero mechs and premium time purchases, and offering them for MC would be a direct currency exchange.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

[size=4]

There's still a reason to buy the MC version. If you have limited module slots, then the MC variant is probably the best for that one slot. Although the T2 one might be competitive (20% two time instead of 35% once).



I suppose that would be true with any consumable, but this is SO preferable to my old interpretation.




No. You use both flushes to have DOUBLE the effectiveness of the MC version.

Go read Garth's clarification post. Each one can only be used once per match.

[Iacov]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Does it? Because you might just be wrong. Look again. "The C-Bill Purchased Coolant Flush will allow a player to trigger a coolant flush twice during a match." The. C-Bill. Purchased. Coolant. Flush. will. allow. a. player. to. trigger. a. coolant. flush. TWICE!!!! during. a. match. Those are the words used. It does NOT say "TWO C-bill purchased coolant flushes will allow a player to trigger two coolant flushes during a match."

normally...if a text passes marketing...sentences tend to have a phrasing that implies one thing and means something different
i am deffinately sure that they intend to tell us, that you can flush 2 times via equipping two modules "the c-bill purchased collant flush" being a synonym for both modules overall

[Joanna Conners]

And how much weight is the coolant flushing going to add, exactly? I don't know about a lot of you, but I manage my heat just fine and I don't have an ounce of room to spare. Why should I worry about adding something?

Only people who can't manage their heat and want to waste weight and slots are going to be using this in the first place.

[Satan n stuff]

According to the second command chair post each flush can only be used once, so t1+t2=t3. The only difference is that t3 takes up one module slot whereas t1 and t2 combined take up two.
Anyway I don't think it's worth using a single module slot for this let alone two.
Edit: They're modules so they don't weigh anything.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 05 March 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Waladil]

FromHell2k, on 05 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

@OP

You don't get it, do you?


Tier 3 (MC) = 175% of Tier 2 (CB). Tier 1+2=Tier 3=2 Slots, Tier 3=1Slots. Now just add Air Strikes, Artillery...

I do get it. And my original interpretation was exactly the same as yours. Now I'm convinced (because if I'm wrong all my hope in this game is DEAD) that it's the better way.


Think about it this way: In game, we're all going to have ONE button that flushes coolant. We won't have THREE buttons that do it. Just one. C-Bill people get 15, 20, or 35% from using it, depending on module loadout. The button works twice for them. MC people get 35% once. In order for C-Bill people to get all 35%, however, they use two module slots, and get two button-presses. (I assume there would be a cooldown in there, perhaps a minute, before you can push it again.)

Paul Inouye: "The C-bill one gives you the opportunity to dump twice in 1 match at the cost of a module slot." Not "The C-bill one lets you spread out your heat dumps at the cost of a module slot." Dump. Twice.

[John MatriX82]

***** n stuff, on 05 March 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

According to the second command chair post each flush can only be used once, so t1+t2=t3. The only difference is that t3 takes up one module slot whereas t1 and t2 combined take up two.
Anyway I don't think it's worth using a single module slot for this let alone two.
Edit: They're modules so they don't weigh anything.

The difference is that f2p players will have to waste 1 slot to reach the effiiciency of the MC version. Therefore MC users are going to get the advantage of using 3 tier 3 consumables, advantaging them for good.

Simply make that tier 3 modules require 2 slots and the problem and the whole uproar is solved.

Edited by John MatriX82, 05 March 2013 - 08:01 AM.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

I do get it. And my original interpretation was exactly the same as yours. Now I'm convinced (because if I'm wrong all my hope in this game is DEAD) that it's the better way.


Think about it this way: In game, we're all going to have ONE button that flushes coolant. We won't have THREE buttons that do it. Just one. C-Bill people get 15, 20, or 35% from using it, depending on module loadout. The button works twice for them. MC people get 35% once. In order for C-Bill people to get all 35%, however, they use two module slots, and get two button-presses. (I assume there would be a cooldown in there, perhaps a minute, before you can push it again.)

Paul Inouye: "The C-bill one gives you the opportunity to dump twice in 1 match at the cost of a module slot." Not "The C-bill one lets you spread out your heat dumps at the cost of a module slot." Dump. Twice.

Go read the part where he then says that one of the flushes will cool 20% and the other will cool 15%. As much as we apreceate your efforts to calm things down, you illiteracy is doing nothing to help.