38 replies to this topic

[Waladil]

Demona, on 05 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

And how much weight is the coolant flushing going to add, exactly? I don't know about a lot of you, but I manage my heat just fine and I don't have an ounce of room to spare. Why should I worry about adding something?

Only people who can't manage their heat and want to waste weight and slots are going to be using this in the first place.

No weight. These take module slots, which are weightless.

Astroniomix, on 05 March 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Go read Garth's clarification post. Each one can only be used once per match.

Which post is this? I haven't seen anything from Garth, but two posts from Paul. The ones in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

Were you referring to that or something else that Garth actually did write?

[Joanna Conners]

***** n stuff, on 05 March 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

According to the second command chair post each flush can only be used once, so t1+t2=t3. The only difference is that t3 takes up one module slot whereas t1 and t2 combined take up two.
Anyway I don't think it's worth using a single module slot for this let alone two.
Edit: They're modules so they don't weigh anything.

All right, so I have to use a module slot for it that could be used for something else. I still don't see everyone using coolant.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

No weight. These take module slots, which are weightless.



Which post is this? I haven't seen anything from Garth, but two posts from Paul. The ones in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

Were you referring to that or something else that Garth actually did write?

I meant Paul. I haven't had my coffee yet.

[Joanna Conners]

Additionally, if we're going to have artillery and airstrikes... why the focus on coolant when we're being given the same thing for C-bills? I'm not seeing any justification for outrage.

[iminbagdad]

He clarifies it. He straight says you dump once for 15% one for 20% for a total of 35%


Also lets not forget no one gives a crap about coolant flush, they released the details on the least inflammatory module first. The people who pay money are going to stack air strikes, artillery, coolant flush, uavs, and whatever else shows up while people who don't want to spend cant compete.

Give me a $60 box game. I ******* hate this "f2p" bs

[Waladil]

John MatriX82, on 05 March 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

The difference is that f2p players will have to waste 1 slot to reach the effiiciency of the MC version. Therefore MC users are going to get the advantage of using 3 tier 3 consumables, advantaging them for good.

Simply make that tier 3 modules require 2 slots and the problem and the whole uproar is solved.

Astroniomix, on 05 March 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Go read the part where he then says that one of the flushes will cool 20% and the other will cool 15%. As much as we apreceate your efforts to calm things down, you illiteracy is doing nothing to help.

Oh, I did read that. Over, and over, and over. Some parts can be interpreted one way, some the other. Some terrify me, and some give me hope. This part? This terrifies me:

"The C-Bill and MC purchased coolant flushes with both max out at 35%.
The C-Bill version of coolant flushes will allow 2 uses during a match. (One cools 15%, the other cools 20%).
The C-Bill version of coolant flushes will required 2 module slots to cool 35%, whereas the MC version will only require 1 module slot."

This one? Gives me a glimmer of hope that I will hold on to until undeniably proven otherwise:

"The C-bill one gives you the opportunity to dump twice in 1 match at the cost of a module slot."

EDIT: Oh, and your insults are doing even less to help. I'm not a paid employee of PGI or IGP, but I love this game. So please, keep a civil tongue, save your bile for someone who's actually advocating horrible P2W schemes.

Edited by Waladil, 05 March 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[LordDante]

ok but before we stop

can i pay to win to have one or two of those for my wang ?
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

[Tarman]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

I do get it. And my original interpretation was exactly the same as yours. Now I'm convinced (because if I'm wrong all my hope in this game is DEAD) that it's the better way.


Think about it this way: In game, we're all going to have ONE button that flushes coolant. We won't have THREE buttons that do it. Just one. C-Bill people get 15, 20, or 35% from using it, depending on module loadout. The button works twice for them. MC people get 35% once. In order for C-Bill people to get all 35%, however, they use two module slots, and get two button-presses. (I assume there would be a cooldown in there, perhaps a minute, before you can push it again.)

Paul Inouye: "The C-bill one gives you the opportunity to dump twice in 1 match at the cost of a module slot." Not "The C-bill one lets you spread out your heat dumps at the cost of a module slot." Dump. Twice.

The total amount of heat dumped is the same, except that the one that costs money is better than either C-bill version alone, and when you pair the T1+T2 to replicate the T3 effect you lose a slot that a paying player can fill with any other module, including another T3. T3/T3 loadout is impossible to build on a 2-slot chassis without injections of real money.

While the coolant pod itself isn't too spectacular, use this delivery model for any other piece of kit in the game, including arty strikes. Any top-tier module in this system is inherently better than its free counterparts, for less space, allowing paying players to run better equipment because they have more money and consequently more module space available for ingame effects than other players. Bad system is bad

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Yeah... I kinda already pointed this out OP.

[General Taskeen]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

The exact percentages don't matter in this case, since we're only comparing one coolant pod to another.

Did you actively choose to ignore the rest of what I wrote?

Here is a Coolant Pod. And then come back and inform everyone how using a Coolant Flush 'consumable' has a disadvantage.

That was the main point of my post. Coolant Pods would better be implemented in their original format, an item you place on your Mech based on available crit space and tonnage with its disadvantages programmed into the game.

Making it a consumable simply cheapens that experience of BT Tech in MWO.

[POWR]

It is not hard to understand what it does or how it works.

If you accumulate 30% heat and use the MC heatdump, it'll dump 11% heat, 35% of 30%. If you use the small cbill dump, you'll dump 6% heat, 15% of 30%, then if you have equipped the other cbill dump, you can reduce the now 24% heat to 18% heat, 25% of 24% is 6%. With some rounding errors in my crude calculation you get the same reduction in heat from both ~12%.

That is how it works. A percentage of currently accumulated heat. It does not mean that if you have accumulated 35% heat that using the mc heat dump will reduce you to 0 heat.

Now, stop crying about how in a free game those that pay something get tiny advantages. You can ALL pay if you want that tiny extra advantage, of an additional few % heat dumped. There's nothing stopping you. Just stop. I agree, I'd rather MWO just cost 60$ and that was that, and you had to pay for expansions. Unfortunately that's no longer the case, with mobile games apparently proving that buying games piecemeal is what the new generation of gamers want, not even realising that there was once such a thing as games you paid for.

So if you really hate this, vote with your wallet, stop whining about it. if noone buys, noone will succeed. But there's really no point in arguing about it: We can all agree that McDonald's is terrible food, yet how many McDonald's restaurants exist? Right.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

EDIT: Oh, and your insults are doing even less to help. I'm not a paid employee of PGI or IGP, but I love this game. So please, keep a civil tongue, save your bile for someone who's actually advocating horrible P2W schemes.

If I had thought you were a paid employee of IGP I wouldn't have been so nice. (I still like PGI but publishers make me rage)

[Waladil]

General Taskeen, on 05 March 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Did you actively choose to ignore the rest of what I wrote?

Here is a Coolant Pod. And then come back and inform everyone how using a Coolant Flush 'consumable' has a disadvantage.

That was the main point of my post. Coolant Pods would better be implemented in their original format, an item you place on your Mech based on available crit space and tonnage with its disadvantages programmed into the game.

Making it a consumable simply cheapens that experience of BT Tech in MWO.

OKAY. YES. Coolant pods have been implemented elsewhere, and in those implementations they are installed like BAP or something, costing weight/slots. If that's what your complaint is, fine. I can understand where you're coming from. But this thread is not about whether or not the original TT design was wiser than a module system that MWO is using. Make a thread about that! Find a way to eloquently arrange your thoughts on the matter! Because this thread, here, is not about that problem. This thread is about finding an interpretation of the CURRENTLY PROPOSED system that is not P2W.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

POWR, on 05 March 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

It is not hard to understand what it does or how it works.

If you accumulate 30% heat and use the MC heatdump, it'll dump 11% heat, 35% of 30%. If you use the small cbill dump, you'll dump 6% heat, 15% of 30%, then if you have equipped the other cbill dump, you can reduce the now 24% heat to 18% heat, 25% of 24% is 6%. With some rounding errors in my crude calculation you get the same reduction in heat from both ~12%.

That is how it works. A percentage of currently accumulated heat. It does not mean that if you have accumulated 35% heat that using the mc heat dump will reduce you to 0 heat.

Now, stop crying about how in a free game those that pay something get tiny advantages. You can ALL pay if you want that tiny extra advantage, of an additional few % heat dumped. There's nothing stopping you. Just stop. I agree, I'd rather MWO just cost 60$ and that was that, and you had to pay for expansions. Unfortunately that's no longer the case, with mobile games apparently proving that buying games piecemeal is what the new generation of gamers want, not even realising that there was once such a thing as games you paid for.

So if you really hate this, vote with your wallet, stop whining about it. if noone buys, noone will succeed. But there's really no point in arguing about it: We can all agree that McDonald's is terrible food, yet how many McDonald's restaurants exist? Right.

Go read his clarification post he straight up says it dumps 15/20/35% of your TOTAL heat. Illiteracy is bad kids.

[Waladil]

To be fair, even the term TOTAL is kinda vague. Is that TOTAL current or TOTAL maximum? Because he doesn't say TOTAL heat CAPACITY, but TOTAL heat.

Adding extra things in your interpretation is also bad, kids.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

To be fair, even the term TOTAL is kinda vague. Is that TOTAL current or TOTAL maximum? Because he doesn't say TOTAL heat CAPACITY, but TOTAL heat.

Adding extra things in your interpretation is also bad, kids.

Total heat would mean the same as "total heat capacity" not "current heat level" which would have drastically different wording. (Canada is still an English speaking country so I doubt he goofed that up)


Illiteracy is bad kids.

EDIT: in this case overthinking is bad.

Edited by Astroniomix, 05 March 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

General Taskeen, on 05 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Its still based on how many heat sinks. If you have 20 HS, that percentage jumps higher.

Plus, a Coolant Pod exists in BT. And this 'consumable' has none of its disadvantages, it takes up space, it can explode, can't be used on omni-mechs, etc.

Its a lost opportunity to add more depth to the build rules already implemented in the Mech Lab.

As noted so prominently just yesterday, the POD version is not timeline ready until 3056 or 63, or some such way off date.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

MaddMaxx, on 05 March 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

As noted so prominently just yesterday, the POD version is not timeline ready until 3056 or 63, or some such way off date.

3061 IIRC. Don't feel like searching through the attic to figure it out.

Also illiteracy is bad.

Edited by Astroniomix, 05 March 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[POWR]

Astroniomix, on 05 March 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Total heat would mean the same as "total heat capacity" not "current heat level" which would have drastically different wording. (Canada is still an English speaking country so I doubt he goofed that up)


Illiteracy is bad kids.

EDIT: in this case overthinking is bad.

As you yourself say, for it to have the meaning you suggest the wording would have to be drastically different.