5 replies to this topic

[Koshirou]

Greetings, Mechwarriors:

Hex-PPC Stalkers, SplatCats, Laserboats: We all know them. They get a lot of play, and a lot of hate. I do not begrudge any players their "boats", but I do think it would improve the game environment to curb the most extreme examples of this design philosophy in order to increase the amount of variation and experimentation.

The outstanding characteristic of the "boat" is to fire all of its weapons in unison and thereby concentrate its damage output against a single hit location on an enemy Mech. To reduce this advantage somewhat, without affecting more balanced builds, I suggest the following:

a.) There should be a small time delay between firing different weapon groups. Just barely enough to make it non-simultaneous, and not noticeable to the player who uses different weapon groups for different roles.

b.) The maximum number of direct fire weapons in one weapon group is limited. As a guideline: any weapon group can only contain as many direct fire weapons as the stock chassis has in either fixed or arm mounted weapons. This limitation could be varied individually by Mech chassis.
Example: A STK-3F has 4 MLs in its arms, so it could have a maximum of 4 direct fire weapons in one group.

c.) SRM fire is limited by the number of launch tubes, firing in slightly staggered salvos with a delay between partial salvos. One SRM should count as 2 LRMs for the purpose of launch tube usage.
Example: A CPLT-A1 has a total of 30 launch tubes, and in a typical "Splatcat" configuration, has 6x SRM6. In this model, it would fire in a three-part salvo of 15, 15 and 6 missiles.

Thank you for reading, and please comment.

Edited by Koshirou, 05 March 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

a.) There should be a small time delay between firing different weapon groups.
Then I put all my weapons in one group or hit "Alpha Strike" button.
b.) The maximum number of direct fire weapons in one weapon group is limited.
As above: Alpha strike.
c.) SRM fire is limited by the number of launch tubes.
Problem is that you can launch more missiles at one time than you have tubes if you have multiple launchers in the same location (like in A1 - you have 15 tubes in each ear, but with 3 SRM6 you can fire 18 missiles at a time). There should be a limit of missiles fired to number of tubes regardles of number of launchers, or mech model should change accordingly to loadout (which is comming I belive).

[Phaesphoros]

a) would break my "workflow". I often use 4 ML in two weapon groups, like left arm -> left mouse button, right arm -< rmb and half of the time firing all 4 using both mouse buttons.

doesn't work w/o a) as you just could use macros

c) interesting idea, though it shouldn't affect say 2*SRM6 (see also patch feedback thread by Frank the Tank)


By the way: IMHO SLs only work when boated, say 4-6 SLs. Thus: no. I like other suggestions better like more heat when firing weapons in quick succession (or simultaneously).

Edited by Phaesphoros, 05 March 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Maybe a bit divergence should be applied to any weapon fired within those tiny little circle and crosshair. You know, like any other game there - weapon projectile is fired within it's limits, yet not 100% directly to the center of it (don't know how to explain any better ). And add a bit increase of reticle radius while moving and jumping, so sniping would become more difficult task, and shooting from 1km range with 6 PPCs will end with 3 of them land far beyond target and other land on random parts of mech.

[Hobietime]

Lauch tube limits are already incorperated in the game.

Here is an LRM 20 Raven.



Video credit to Koniving.

I think the most powerful way to prevent boating would be to add a heat modifier for firing multiple of the same weapons at the same time.

I would have it tweaked so it would follow an exponential curve. Probably not k^n where n is the number of weapons being fired and k is a constant. I would start with a global one, but allow for balance tweaking of each weapon.

A double fire would have a slight penalty, triple would be significant and quad would be crippling. Stuff like 6x PPCs would be off the charts.

So out goes LOLcats that don't use chain fire and alpha stalker builds.

I think the best way to prevent boating is to adjust the weapons systems so they complement each other, so instead of trying to get around a limitation, players will flock to the extra bonus of varied weapons.

For example, what if A/C 3 seconds had a passive ability where a hit to any armored area would mean that for 2 seconds energy weapons will have a +(X) damage modifier on that armor section (say, the RT) . It isn't cannon, but it would deepen the metagame and prevent boating at the same time.

Now, I would have it so ballistics would provide bonuses for energy, which would provide bonuses for missiles, which would in turn provide bonuses for ballistics. You could rationalize it with this. If I was making armor, I would want it to be so me sort of metal-ceramic layered composite, and make sure that the metal has a high albeto. The ballistics punch through the metal and are absorbed in the ceramics. Allowing the lasers to penetrate the metal and head up the ceramic inside This softens up the ceramic and makes it easier for explosive damage to pulverize it. The now weakened ceramic layers cannot absorb as much kinetic energy from the ballistic rounds.

I would also give the lasers and missles a different damage ratio.

I would even go so far as to have the damage modifier carry over so that combos can be achieved eg. A/C 20(+3 dmg from lasers for 4.5 seconds) to ML(+ 3 dmg from explosive for 5 seconds) to SRM2 (+4 dmg from ballistics for 4.5 seconds) . So that if you landed all your shots you could get a +10 damage modifier on your next A/C 20 reload.

Alpha striking would not give you this bonus since Lasers would reach before ballistics and ballistics would reach before missiles so you would only get +10% on your missiles.

I made these modifiers really high in this case so this instance might be a little OP. But it would be extremely difficult to get anything close to that accuracy in brawling range while you to are taking hits. It would also provide an incentive for smaller weapons. Higher recycle time means it would be easier to get a combo going, for less burst damage.

I don't know, It might be a bit complex. But it would allow for deeper play that would only affect higher tiers. Obviously no low Elo player is going to be landing these kind of shots just as low Elo players in League of Legends pop their abilities incorrectly and do less damage compared to a seasoned player. It adds depth without adding to the initial learning curve.

[Koshirou]

Clarifications:

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 05 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Then I put all my weapons in one group

You could not. The number of weapons that you could put into one group would be limited. That is crucial to the idea.

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or hit "Alpha Strike" button.

That would, in this model, simply fire all groups as quickly as possible, and not get rid of the small delay.

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Problem is that you can launch more missiles at one time than you have tubes if you have multiple launchers in the same location

That is not a problem, that is the exact feature I aim to expand upon.