244 replies to this topic

[Inyc]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

You're welcome! I think most players will enjoy the added tactics and things to do within game. The arty/air strikes play into the scouting role, since they require line of sight targeting until the battlegrid control module comes online.

Most players will welcome the added tactics but not a single player welcomes the pay to win component of it. I will say it once again: You do not need to attach an MC cost to this. If you want money, then give us more reasons to use Premium Time and cosmetic items. Focus efforts there.

I would rather pay for Premium Time to gather up C-bills for consumables than pay MC for consumables. Don't do this. All you'll do is gut the community, thousands of people will leave because no one can stand P2W.

[Tibs]

like idea my self .. but cant please everyone some are just hot heads ... say what you need to move on

[Weaselball]

Bryan,

While I appreciate your taking the time to come on here and explain the mechanics / thought process a bit further, I still find it difficult to swallow that you didn't want to introduce the MC versions of the consumables for C-Bill prices. Even if it was 65,000 c-bills for the Coolant 3 module, I'm 100% certain that the community would prefer this over an MC only purchase.

100% certain. Please rethink your decision. If anything, go with this right out the gate, and see if it works for you. More choice = better, and I want to see this game be great.

I'm asking this in as civilized manner as possible

[MaddMaxx]

Monky, on 05 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Please consider shelving coolant or making it apply to single heatsink only AND both options provide the same cooling/module setup. Hell, make it 3 sizes for both cbill/mc if you want so people can choose.

DHS mechs don't need this, they are already potent enough. 120 damage from 6 PPC Stalker in 2 alphas now becomes 180 damage from 6 PPC stalker in 3 alphas before shutdown. You run an atlas? Get ready to be cored in 10 seconds.

Please go here and build a 6 PPC Stalker that can fire twice in a row, on Caustic (it has to be usable everywhere right) and not be shut down for >30 seconds? We won't even ask that it have >/= 25% of maximum armor capacity on board to keep it real... 3 alpha's? Not very likely, even with a 2nd tier flush in the works.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

[Palutena]

The issue I have with the implementation of coolant flush itself.

Coolant flush or pods should be an item that you have to stick on your mech somewhere that weights something and takes a critical slot that I can blow up before you use it. Its a physical item that has to be stored somewhere is it not?

The other modules sound like electronic improvements which are part of your mech's computer system so don't require extra weight and critical slots.

The MC coolant flush should be available for cbills but cost significantly more cbills then the cbill only flush. World of Tanks made all the pay items purchasable for free currency but at a higher cost.

[Yokaiko]

Palutena, on 05 March 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

The issue I have with the implementation of coolant flush itself.

Coolant flush or pods should be an item that you have to stick on your mech somewhere that weights something and takes a critical slot that I can blow up before you use it. Its a physical item that has to be stored somewhere is it not?

The other modules sound like electronic improvements which are part of your mech's computer system so don't require extra weight and critical slots.

The MC coolant flush should be available for cbills but cost significantly more cbills then the cbill only flush. World of Tanks made all the pay items purchasable for free currency but at a higher cost.

I agree here.

As much as I can't stand the idea of coolant flushing, in TT there was a distinct issue with coolant pods betting blown off.

[ObsidianSpectre]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Small Coolant Flush

• 1 module slot.
  
• 1 use per match.
  
• Consumed when used.
  
• 15% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
  
• 5,000 CB per use.
  
• Only one can be equipped.

Medium Coolant Flush

• 1 module slot.
  
• 1 use per match.
  
• Consumed when used.
  
• 20% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
  
• 7,500 CB per use.
  
• Only one can be equipped.

Large Coolant Flush

• 1 module slot.
  
• 1 use per match.
  
• Consumed when used.
  
• 35% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
  
• 25 per use.
  
• Only one can be equipped.
  
• Can't be equipped if Small or Medium Cooling flush are currently equipped.

We're still tuning the details, but this is currently in test. Paul is updating the CC post and will added the Arty/Air Strike details.

I still don't like this, but it's not as bad as I feared, and if you add a C-Bill price to the T3 version, I can live with it. I'm not promising I won't complain, but I won't be stomping out or refusing to spend more money.

[Mystere]

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

No. Arty and Air Strikes work differently.

Paul is going to post the details shortly.

Here's some highlights.

• There are cooldown timers. Cooldown timers make sure there is a space between shots and prevents a team coordinating a single massive strike.
  
• CB Version does more damage but is slower to target. 10,000 CB
  
• Version does less damage but is faster to target. 25
  
• Only one of each can be equipped.
  
• Only one user per match.
  
• Consumed when used.

Wait a minute! The c-bill version has more damage and is therefore much better than the MC version. You're asking us to pay-to-lose! Wah! Wah! Wah!







(sorry but I just couldn't help myself)

Edited by Mystere, 05 March 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[Signal27]

Palutena, on 05 March 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

The issue I have with the implementation of coolant flush itself.

Coolant flush or pods should be an item that you have to stick on your mech somewhere that weights something and takes a critical slot that I can blow up before you use it. Its a physical item that has to be stored somewhere is it not?

The other modules sound like electronic improvements which are part of your mech's computer system so don't require extra weight and critical slots.

The MC coolant flush should be available for cbills but cost significantly more cbills then the cbill only flush. World of Tanks made all the pay items purchasable for free currency but at a higher cost.

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I agree here.

As much as I can't stand the idea of coolant flushing, in TT there was a distinct issue with coolant pods betting blown off.

The problem with implementing coolant pods as they were in the tabletop is that nobody would use them, because once you start taking up real estate inside your mech (tonnage, crit space) then people would much rather use those tons for, you know, more heat sinks.

[Chavette]

I think some exponential cbill and linear mc pricing would keep everyone happy. Tier 1 would be low enough for the newbie to buy, and Tier 3, who really wants to would still get it.

Besides, who says everyone must use their strikes every match?
Its fine if higher tiers cost alot compared to match earnings, with ELO, you arent stomping noobs with your Tier 3 items, its the other teams choice not to use as many. And with the higher cbill price, you wouldnt be using it every match for long anyway...

Edited by Chavette, 05 March 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Signal27, on 05 March 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The problem with implementing coolant pods as they were in the tabletop is that nobody would use them, because once you start taking up real estate inside your mech (tonnage, crit space) then people would much rather use those tons for, you know, more heat sinks.

......better than real money that can't be damaged.

[mcann]

Sorry, but i have to say my opinion, and thank you Bryan to take your time to explain, but if you look from the competition point of view, a team with Mc spent can have superiority with 3x8 Mc modules, against 8 guys without Mcs spent, they will not have 8 modules of diference, so IMO its still p2w, you should re-think the feature if you accept my point of view...

[Bilbo]

Monky, on 05 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Please consider shelving coolant or making it apply to single heatsink only AND both options provide the same cooling/module setup. Hell, make it 3 sizes for both cbill/mc if you want so people can choose.

DHS mechs don't need this, they are already potent enough. 120 damage from 6 PPC Stalker in 2 alphas now becomes 180 damage from 6 PPC stalker in 3 alphas before shutdown. You run an atlas? Get ready to be cored in 10 seconds.

If my Atlas allows you to alpha strike me 3 times in ten seconds, I have issues that can't be fixed by removing coolant modules.

[p4p3rth1n]

To steal from another person:

I think a system of consumables is inherently flawed. Even if they weren't purchasable with MC. If they cost CBills that means you either use them (help your team, earn less money) or don't (sandbag your team, earn more money). It's an anti-fun feature just like repair and rearm. Making them purchasable with MC and having the MC ones be different from the CBill ones just makes it that much worse.

Edited by p4p3rth1n, 05 March 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Budor]

Weaselball, on 05 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Bryan,

While I appreciate your taking the time to come on here and explain the mechanics / thought process a bit further, I still find it difficult to swallow that you didn't want to introduce the MC versions of the consumables for C-Bill prices. Even if it was 65,000 c-bills for the Coolant 3 module, I'm 100% certain that the community would prefer this over an MC only purchase.

100% certain. Please rethink your decision. If anything, go with this right out the gate, and see if it works for you. More choice = better, and I want to see this game be great.

I'm asking this in as civilized manner as possible

Please do this. High price to make the MC purchase desireable but do not lock the 1 slot version out for the Free player base or give them a inferior 1 slot version (20%) instead...please do not p2w this game so blatantly

Edited by Budor, 05 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[DirePhoenix]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

So slide the scale.

You had to know this was going to be a shitstorm.

Bryan Ekman, on 05 March 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yes.

Sulu: In range?
Helmsman: Not yet, sir.
Sulu: C'mon, C'mon!
Helmsman: She'll fly apart!
Sulu: FLY HER APART, THEN!!!

Edited by DirePhoenix, 05 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[ObsidianSpectre]

Chavette, on 05 March 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

I think some exponential cbill and linear mc pricing would keep everyone happy. Tier 1 would be low enough for the newbie to buy, and Tier 3, who really wants to would still get it.

When they first announced the ideas in the March Director's post, this is the exact thing I was afraid of (it hadn't even occured to me that PGI would release an MC only module). By letting MC players run all the consumables they want every match they play, when it's not feasible for a free player to do the same, they are adding pay to win.

The price plan they have now isn't too bad, and maybe could work, but PGI needs to be extremely careful here. If T3 of coolant cost 25k, and all consumables were priced similarly to coolant pods, then I think we'll be alright.

Edited by ObsidianSpectre, 05 March 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[Chavette]

mcann, on 05 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sorry, but i have to say my opinion, and thank you Bryan to take your time to explain, but if you look from the competition point of view, a team with Mc spent can have superiority with 3x8 Mc modules, against 8 guys without Mcs spent, they will not have 8 modules of diference, so IMO its still p2w, you should re-think the feature if you accept my point of view...

Well the good news is mc and cbill availability seems to be the general consensus in the feedback thread.

The trick is to figure out the correct rates for the two currencies in that case.

[hammerreborn]

mcann, on 05 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sorry, but i have to say my opinion, and thank you Bryan to take your time to explain, but if you look from the competition point of view, a team with Mc spent can have superiority with 3x8 Mc modules, against 8 guys without Mcs spent, they will not have 8 modules of diference, so IMO its still p2w, you should re-think the feature if you accept my point of view...

If you look from the competition point of view, guasscats/thundercats, 3Ls, and most DDCs (you know, the thing people actually run) probably don't even need MC coolant modules and can use artillery strikes and functional useful modules instead.

Edited by hammerreborn, 05 March 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[ragingmunkyz]

Individually, this isn't so bad, but its still not good. A lot of us are more concerned with the greater ramifications that introducing this pay for advantage scheme will have. Has there been any thought to allowing only 1 MC module at a time? That way there aren't players loaded with all tier 3 modules who obviously have an advantage over players with tier 1 and 2 and have to sacrifice more module slots. Does this set a precedent for similar things being introduced? by that I mean, will the best things all be MC only, will we see many more p2w releases?

Perhaps most importantly: If the feedback for this remains overwhelming negative, is there any chance it will get removed from the game? I know you want to see how it works for now, but if it turns out that it doesn't, will we be able to convince you to remove it for the sake of MWO?