21 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

According to the Creative Director Update this month, a new combat consumable system using the game's modules slots is due to hit in 'bout two weeks here. Obviously, things such as coolant flushes and carpet bombings will be powerful new tools in a pilot's arsenal - nobody will want to go without their own personal artillery strike, nor is the option of saying "Cluck you!" to the heat gauge one to ignore lightly.

The price, of course, is that these items will be using up module slots. Given that new straight-up modules are also slated to be coming out at some point in the distant, fog-shrouded future, I'm wondering if, perhaps, folks who currently scoff at the Beagle Active Probe as "1.5 tons and 2 crit slots for stuff you can get for free in modules!" are reconsidering? I know I am - if my choice is between things a 1.5-ton piece of equipment can do for me and my own personal fighter wing, I know which way I'm going to go. Especially since the BAP also makes using guided missiles easier in those few instances where guided missiles are useful in the first place.

What about you folks? Does anyone else think that the Beagle may end up coming into its own for players who'd normally just take sensor modules when their module slots suddenly start becoming more precious to them than their tonnage/crits are? I've already been experimenting with the thing on a few missile-armed configurations of my Treb and Dragons here and there and have become fonder of it than I figured I would. With the maps getting bigger and module slots getting tighter, I'm starting to be really glad I've got a few of these things sitting around. Anyone else?

[NRP]

The possibilities are intriguing for sure, but I'm waiting for more concrete info about what it all means.

[StalaggtIKE]

Well it seems to me that ECM would get even more popular. Why you ask? So you can avoid air support and artillery strikes. If they can't see you on the map, how would they be able to successfully target you?

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 04 March 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Bolide]

Certain builds may rethink using the BAP instead of sensor range, but for most mechs I think it will be more a decision of which module to drop to get consumables rather than adding a BAP.

Will be interesting to see if the command console adds a module slot or two in future patches.

[ohtochooseaname]

You know, BAP actually works with the extended sensor range module. In River City, you can actually target all the enemies at their starting point, if you start in Upper City...not that anything guided can fire that far. It would be funny to combine both, and launch a pre-emptive carpet bomb while they are still getting organized.

[Batnar]

can anyone confirm BAP stack with module sensor plz

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

BAP was supposed to be the electronic answer to ECM. But we dont have Passive Radar which when used in conjunction with ECM cut down the range the mech equiped with it could be picked up on sensors down to 150 meters in Passive and 400 with Active. Not provide a Bubble to hide other mechs in.BAP extended the Range of active sensors to 1200 meters in Active Radar and picked up ECM'd Mechs at 650 when they are in Active Radar and 350 when in Passive. I know the Devs dont want to just copy MW2 with fancier graphics but the variable Radar/Sensor modes with Electronic Suites as enhancements is pretty damn true to Table Top and Mech2 made pretty good use of it. I know its not in keeping with K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple,Stupid) thinking. But having a Stealth Bubble for a Scout to provide for an entire lance isnt what ECM was about either. As it is the counter to ECM is 'Oh look I found a bunker with 120K Cruise Missiles and the Nuke Warheads that mount on them too. Have fun trying to avoid the weapon I launched from 200+ miles away that has Terrain Following, GPS Navigation and Built-In LandMark Recognition.'

[StalaggtIKE]

Batnar, on 04 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

can anyone confirm BAP stack with module sensor plz

Yes, it does.

[Phoenix Gray]

StalaggtIKE, on 04 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Well it seems to me that ECM would get even more popular. Why you ask? So you can avoid air support and artillery strikes. If they can't see you on the map, how would they be able to successfully target you?

The classic artillery/tac air response to that problem is, "kill the grid square."

"Guys? Where'd E5 go?"

[1453 R]

Well, we have some additional information about consumables, and it's either dismaying news or really kinda awesome news, depending on how ye look at it.

Apparently when one clicks "Purchase" on a consumable, one gets a single instance of that consumable, period. After use it's gone forever and needs to be bought again before it can be used again, rather than being a (presumably) crazy-expensive module which 'recharges' after a match and just provides a single use per fight. This strikes me as meaning that most people are going to...basically never use this junk, unless they're hip-deep in disposable income, since I'm also going to assume that the C-bill cost of the basic versions is going to be nontrivial. Paying half a million C-bills for something I get to use once is not a thing I'll be doing. And that's assuming they don't cost the same as any ordinary module, up in the two mil-plus zone. At that point, Piranha can take their consumables and stuff them right up their *REDACTED*.

Which, of course, means that the module slots will largely be open. Hmm...suppose we'll have to see just how game-endingly broken arty and airstrikes are. I'm anticipating 'a lot', since it'd be a fantastic way to get people to pony up some MC for arty strikes and such. Clearly I haven't spent enough money on MWO, after all.

[/disgruntled]

[TheFlyingScotsman]

I'll have to give the BAP a run for its money on my own TBT. I always like to try new things.

[Konril]

I still keep a BAP on my Centurion and Atlas, even though I'm not using LRMs on them any more. The thing with Advanced Sensors and the Beagle is:

No sensor help means radar reaches out to 800m.
Either the Beagle or Advanced Sensors adds 25% to that, so targeting goes out to 1,000m.
Both together seem to add to each other. Radar and targeting goes out to 1,200m.

So, yes, they do stack.

Keep in mind, that ECM is still an issue. The Beagle is no help against ECM covered targets, and targeting only works to 200m with or without the active probe. However, the sensor module has been recently patched to work against ECM, so Advanced Sensors will extend radar range out to 250m.

[Ewigan]

Yeah, i still use BAP, but only on my Long Range direct fire Atlas.
A gauss, 2 ER PPC, BAP + Advanced senor range.... yay

[StalaggtIKE]

Phoenix Gray, on 04 March 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

The classic artillery/tac air response to that problem is, "kill the grid square."

"Guys?  Where'd E5 go?"

You won't see ECM cloaked on the command map, so you'll be guesstimating at best.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 05 March 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[George Ripper]

StalaggtIKE, on 05 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

You won't see ECM cloaked on the command map, so you'll be guesstimating at best.

That's how real life military units often operate. LOL. Hence the term "fire for effect".

[Wrenchfarm]

I actually like BAP quite a bit and run it on my LRM boats. Faster locks and target info is a great bonus. I don't even care about the range so much as I try and discipline my LRM fire to around 500m unless I have a peach of a shot (legged mech in the water or something).

[Hex Pallett]

If I'm not mistaken, the only use of BAP is to tag enemies IN YOUR SIGHT on your battlegrid so you can call-in artillery strike more precisely.

Which can still be countered by ECM.

At the moment the only counter of ECM is the Counter mode of ECM it self, and TAG that only works within 750m.

The former requires basically a ECM-Light suicide squad to work outsider of TAG range. The latter requires targets to be within 750m, a range which renders BAP useless.

Not mentioning when enemies are in your sight, chance is you can pretty much guess what coordinate they're at.

So why the hell do we need BAP exactly?

Edited by Helmstif, 05 March 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Fut]

StalaggtIKE, on 04 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Well it seems to me that ECM would get even more popular. Why you ask? So you can avoid air support and artillery strikes. If they can't see you on the map, how would they be able to successfully target you?

Speculating of course, but I believe that Arial Strikes and Artillery Bombardment will using a grid coordinate(s) as the designated target. ECM or not, if you're in a grid that's about to be lit up from above, you're going to feel it.

[StalaggtIKE]

Fut, on 05 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Speculating of course, but I believe that Arial Strikes and Artillery Bombardment will using a grid coordinate(s) as the designated target. ECM or not, if you're in a grid that's about to be lit up from above, you're going to feel it.

Yes, of course. You can see non-ECM mechs on the battlegrid map. Thus easy targets for Artillery strike. However, the ECM mechs will be invisible, therefore you will be firing blindly at them. My point is ECM mechs are going to be even stronger because of this.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 05 March 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

StalaggtIKE, on 05 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

You won't see ECM cloaked on the command map, so you'll be guesstimating at best.

Finally, a use for LRM boats.

"Keep shooting. We'll aim at the secondary explosions."