237 replies to this topic

[Zrave]

I don't understand why SRM damage was buffed in comparison to tabletop. They are the strongest weapons for short range brawling, and become completely overpowered when you can get close enough to miss with only a few missiles. In tabletop, SRMs are balanced around the fact that on average only about half the missiles hit, but in MWO you can force most of the missiles to hit if you're under 100m distance. When I play my srm stalker I routinely get over 1k damage.

If not for the hardpoint system, I'd pack my mech with like 10 srm6. I don't think you can say that about many other weapons. Just compare it to the LB-10X, they both have shotgun like effects but the LB-10X does less damage at three times the tonnage and slots. Sure it has the advantage of range but a shotgun is not a very effective sniper weapon

I think a return to 2 damage per missile would be reasonable.

[rgreat]

Heh, and LRM to return to 1 damage per missile, from 1.8?

[Vassago Rain]

It's a shotgun. It spreads all over anything you shoot. You'll do hundreds of damage, but it doesn't kill as quickly as focused AC fire.

[ove bababoke]

Let`s nerf all weapon and use sticks!

[Taurick]

Vassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

It's a shotgun. It spreads all over anything you shoot. You'll do hundreds of damage, but it doesn't kill as quickly as focused AC fire.

Nice deadpan delivery

[XWorldEaterX]

They only seem like they have super high damage because of the atlas's and catapults that are boating them. Notice you don't feel like you just got ripped apart when you get hit by a light or hunchback using two srm 6's?

Its the same thing with lrm's. One guy firing a single lrm 10 won't scare anyone back into cover. But seeing someone boating 60+ missiles usually has that effect.

Edited by XWorldEaterX, 13 January 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Fat Samurai]

Zrave, on 13 January 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

in MWO you can force most of the missiles to hit if you're under 100m distance. When I play my srm stalker I routinely get over 1k damage.

Whoever is letting a 6 SRM6 Stalker get closer than 100m of his mech deserves anything that he gets.

[Craftyman]

XWorldEaterX, on 13 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

They only seem like they have super high damage because of the atlas's and catapults that are boating them. Notice you don't feel like you just got ripped apart when you get hit by a light or hunchback using two srm 6's?

Its the same thing with lrm's. One guy firing a single lrm 10 won't scare anyone back into cover. But seeing someone boating 60+ missiles usually has that effect.

Close but you have it backwards, they are being boated BECAUSE of their high INDIVIDUAL and per ammo damage.

[XWorldEaterX]

Fat Samurai, on 13 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Whoever is letting a 6 SRM6 Stalker get closer than 100m of his mech deserves anything that he gets.

lol me and you seem to always disagree samurai. I through it was funny when I looked at your post then start to say something against it then see your name lol. This is true for a stalker but it is not so easy to get away from a catapult using 6 of them. If it wasnt so much easier to take out arms then a shoulder there would be much more whine about it.

The biggest problem with srm 6's is that when you hit someone with six unless they are an atlas or stalker you almost always rip all their front or back armor off in one shot and most mechs aren't going over 85 kph

I see srm's taking a hit sooner or later though, I have been seeing a lot more srm cats each week. I am curious from the people who run 8 man groups, how many srm boats are in organized play?

[XWorldEaterX]

Craftyman, on 13 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Close but you have it backwards, they are being boated BECAUSE of their high INDIVIDUAL and per ammo damage.

They are also being boating because of hard ponts, ecm and map size. I didn't play before ecm but from what I see on the forums streaks were much more widely used then srm's. If you have a missile hard point you have three options. Long range, closer range lockons or srms.... I only use streaks on my awesome and when I can't fit srm's on, because when I don't run with friends I usually do very very bad with lock on weapons.

I worry that if they take a damage hit how it will effect mechs only using 1-2 of them.

Edit: Also how would this affect mechs boating srm's? You are sacrificing a lot to have that much firepower. Look at what ecm did to streaks. Unless you are able to use ecm you almost never use streaks. I have seen I think two maybe three streak boats in the last two weeks of playing.

Edited by XWorldEaterX, 13 January 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Craftyman]

you may have three options but they all are doing far too much damage per ton and per ammo. They are not balanced in relation to the other weapons. 2.0 damage per SRM, 1.5 per LRM would be a good start even then they're still pretty strong in comparison to half the other weapons (but thats mostly because half the other weapons suck).

[XWorldEaterX]

Craftyman, on 13 January 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

you may have three options but they all are doing far too much damage per ton and per ammo. They are not balanced in relation to the other weapons. 2.0 damage per SRM, 1.5 per LRM would be a good start even then they're still pretty strong in comparison to half the other weapons (but thats mostly because half the other weapons suck).

Depends. A lot of people put artemis on srms which increases their weight to 4 tons and you need atleast 1 ton of ammo per weapons plus 1-3 tons of ammo for missing and shooting at lights. I won't comment on lrms but srm are short range. Not that 270m crap the game tells you. Try shooting your srms at 270 and see what happens. Ballistics on the other hand can be shot from way farther away and you only need 1-3 of them to be super effective.

I had a friend the other day get hit from across the volcano on that hot map and lose his entire leg armor in one shot from an ac/20 cat(might have been a gauss cat, we ended up obliterating them and I only knew for sure they had an ac/20 cat). I need to be within 50-150m to do that.

I admit that srm and lrm boats are very powerful but so are ballistic boats and their only disadvantage is the skill require to land the shots.

Edited by XWorldEaterX, 13 January 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Sheraf]

SRM damage is fine. Sometimes, I killed the SRM 6 Catapult from afar. Sometimes, I was careless, and let one came close to kill me. It is just that if your team is actually working as a team and spot these mechs, so the rest can deal with them. They are very vulnerable to long range weapons.

[Craftyman]

XWorldEaterX, on 13 January 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Depends. A lot of people put artemis on srms which increases their weight to 4 tons and you need atleast 1 ton of ammo per weapons plus 1-3 tons of ammo for missing and shooting at lights. I won't comment on lrms but srm are short range. Not that 270m crap the game tells you. Try shooting your srms at 270 and see what happens. Ballistics on the other hand can be shot from way farther away and you only need 1-3 of them to be super effective.

I had a friend the other day get hit from across the volcano on that hot map and lose his entire leg armor in one shot from an ac/20 cat(might have been a gauss cat, we ended up obliterating them and I only knew for sure they had an ac/20 cat). I need to be within 50-150m to do that.

*snip*

The facts are pretty clear, SRMs are better than ballistics because lower weight for damage equivalent damage. SRMs are better than energy weapons because of lower heat per damage. Despite the all-balancing "effective range" of SRMs they are still THE top killer weapon.

I admit that they can miss and lower damage but have you ever considered that ballistics can miss as well? yet their damage per ton of ammo is nearly half that of SRMs, how is that fair? you can argue pinpoint damage all you want in practice ballistics will not do "pinpoint" CT (with the faster firing ballistics, AC/20 and gauss rifle do fine as ballistics) damage unless your opponent sits there and takes the pounding.

-.5 damage is not going to make them trash I 100% guarantee it. That is 3 damage off of current 15 damage SRM6 and still 200 damage per ton, much better than anything ballistics have.

The AC/20 cat is a different beast entirely and not relevant to the discussion as its a complete anomaly and the AC/20 is largely balanced (strong weapon, easy to disable). it's just the catapult (it's a 65 ton "support" mech for god's sakes) that can mount 2 of them in hard to disable spots that isn't balanced. I could just as easily argue the same point by pointing out the 6 SRM6 cat with its 90 damage alpha.

It should NOT be the poster child for ballistic balance. Ballistic balance includes the trash that is the AC/5 and the mediocre AC/10, not to mention the lower than trash machine gun.

Edited by Craftyman, 13 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[mekabuser]

Op post is rediculous.
srms packed onto a stalker and talking about over 1000k damage when under 100m.


Anything boated under 100 m does a lot of damage.
srm <IN GAME> is one of the most borked systems going.. People need to be hit in the head with a hammer to finally understand that there is a huge difference between a table top game and a rl online video game.

[Broceratops]

good players adapt, bad players qq until things get nerfed then qq about whatever the good players switch over to. turn yourself into a good player to break the cycle.

[Deamhan]

With SRMs, they are short range and straight shooting so you have to lead the target. People just need to learn to look and see their target's weapon layout to decide a course of action against them. The farther the enemy is away, the more they spread and the more likely you are to have some or all of the missiles miss. So in the TT the missiles have a chance to hit so not all missiles do, but does the TT have modifiers for range? Are you telling me that if the enemy mech is only 10m away, the number of SRMs that are likely to miss is the same as if the same mech was 200m away? If so, then that is a TT short fall and I'm glad they don't have that in game. How would they do it anyway? When you fire, each missile has only a chance of delivering its damage? No thnx, if I miss with half my missiles against a fast moving target at 250 and the half I miss with are the ones that were suppose to do damage, then I basically missed completely when I didn't. There is an ingame physics engine at work and if the TT can't adequately simulate the situation with something as simple as hit modifiers due to distance, then that is not MWO's problem.

People also seem to forget that there is no character sheet. The player is the character and if the player is skilled enough to properly lead the target, then good on'em.

The TT doesn't/can't account for every factor that exists in a Real Time situation/simulation. MWO is a real time game and so it doesn't have to account for them since with the use of an adequate physics engine they are already there. So I say no to artificial handicaps that only punish the skilled players.

What is it that those that refer to the TT expect them to do? Do you want them to change the targeting system so that every weapon uses weapon lock but your chance of hitting and where you hit with energy and balistic is left up to a virtual dice roll? That each missile has a chance to miss and where it hits (if it does) is left up to a virtual dice roll?

Screw that. It would only mean that those who are skilled would be handicapped while those who are bad get a crutch. NO!

Edited by Deamhan, 13 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Deamhan, on 13 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

With SRMs, they are short range and straight shooting so you have to lead the target. People need to learn to look and see their target's weapon layout to decide a course of action against them. The farther the enemy is away, the more they spread and the more likely you are to have some or all of the missiles hit. So in the TT the missiles have a chance to hit so not all missiles do, but does the TT have modifiers for range? Are you telling me that if the enemy mech is only 10m away, the number of SRMs that are likely to miss is the same as if the same mech was 200m away? If so, then that is a TT short fall and I'm glad they don't have that in game. How would they do it anyway? When you fire, each missile has only a chance of delivering its damage? No thnx, if I miss with half my missiles against a fast moving target at 250 and the half I miss with are the ones that were suppose to do damage, then I basically missed completely when I didn't. You also can't force misses anymore than you can force hits with a weapon that is straight shooting. There is an ingame physics engine at work and if the TT can't adequately simulate the situation with something as simple as hit modifiers due to distance, then that is not MWO's problem.

People also seem to forget that there is no character sheet. The player is the character and if the player is skilled enough to properly lead the target, then good on'em.

The TT doesn't/can't account for every factor that exists in a Real Time situation/simulation. MWO is a real time game and so it doesn't have to account for them since with the use of an adequate physics engine they are already there. So I say no to artificial handicaps that only punish the skilled players.

What is it that those that refer to the TT expect them to do? Do you want them to change the targeting system so that every weapon uses weapon lock but your chance of hitting and where you hit with energy and balistic is left up to a virtual dice roll? That each missile has a chance to miss and where it hits (if it does) is left up to a virtual dice roll?

Screw that. It would only mean that those who are skilled would be handicapped while those who are bad get a crutch. NO!

[Orzorn]

Broceratops, on 13 January 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

good players adapt, bad players qq until things get nerfed then qq about whatever the good players switch over to. turn yourself into a good player to break the cycle.

So then you wouldn't have any trouble adapting to the changes the OP was proposing?

Just saiyan.

[IIIuminaughty]

I think was should all play the game more and posting on forums less =D

Edited by StrataDragoon, 13 January 2013 - 09:59 AM.