38 replies to this topic

[Mahws]

It does nothing at the moment, it's dead weight. It's just a place holder.

Dreamslave, on 06 March 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

FTFY

To explain, the Flame has only 5 tubes in it's missile launcher, meaning an SRM/6 doesn't fire all missiles at once. Let alone the fact that the majority of the Flames firepower is on both of its arms, meaning you can easily semi-neuter it.

The Flame has 4 energy slots in its arms and its ballistic well protected in the side torso. The only Flame build that has the majority of its firepower in its arms is the 4XLL build, as opposed to the Fang that has a significant majority of its Dakka by weight in its arm in any build that takes a ballistic larger than an AC5. Not seeing Fang having an advantage there.

The five tubes is a minor disadvantage (your sixth shot comes about half a second later), but considering that all the best Flame builds forgo missiles altogether I don't really see that as an issue, certainly not one that balances out the disadvantages of the Fangs weaker energy load out, useless second ballistic slot and arm mounted, hip height ballistic.

Edited by Mahws, 06 March 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Joe Kid]

MadBomberMan, on 06 March 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

What does the command console do? It doesnt say that it does anything in its description

Nothing, at this time.

[operator0]

I run the Flame almost exclusively. The build I like is the 4LL XL350 15 dbl heat sinks. You get a 36 point alpha in the arms, and the thing goes 104kph. Beware though, the Flame is NOT a good brawler. You can use it as a striker mech, or a direct fire support mech, but don't try to brawl in it.

What's really fun about going 104kph in a 60 ton mech is the ability to go 70kph backwards. I really enjoy seeing A1 Splat Cats, or CN9-A Zombies in this thing out in the open. They will charge me and I'll just run backwards almost as fast as they go forwards. Before they can get within serious damage range, I'll have cored them and killed them.

Another great tactic is to use it like a jump sniper, except you move laterally. Pick a piece of cover, then move into the open, fire the lasers, and move back before they get a chance to pop you. That's what 104kph does for you.

Here's the build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7daf3a705ce1a8

And here's a video:

I've tried other builds, but I really think the speed is what makes this mech so good. 100kph or bust.

[Mahws]

You should try a round or two with
Gauss + 4 tonne ammo
4ML
2 Double Heatsink

You lose a single point of damage on your alpha strike, but get greater sustained fire and some wallop at longer range. Practice poking just your head over a hill and letting off a Gauss round before dropping back down, you're practically un-hittable when done right and the rage it generates is delicious.

Normally wouldn't recommend a Gauss with an XL, but with the Dragons side torsos I've found it works pretty well.

[epsilon26]

Mahws, this is about as close as I can get to your build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...620cf1cbe5b5e4c

Not sure where you're getting the room for a second Double heatsink. I haven't personally run it yet, but it looks like it'll be more than find heatwise. After some testing I might drop the 1 extra heatsink in the engine for another ton of ammo depending how a few games go.

Edited by epsilon26, 07 March 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[operator0]

Mahws, on 06 March 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

You should try a round or two with
Gauss + 4 tonne ammo
4ML
2 Double Heatsink

You lose a single point of damage on your alpha strike, but get greater sustained fire and some wallop at longer range. Practice poking just your head over a hill and letting off a Gauss round before dropping back down, you're practically un-hittable when done right and the rage it generates is delicious.

Normally wouldn't recommend a Gauss with an XL, but with the Dragons side torsos I've found it works pretty well.

I may give that a try. Just an FYI though, 4LL still does 18 points of damage out to 675 meters, which is more than a Gauss does at that range. The Gauss can do pinpoint damage but it is fragile. Will be interesting to compare the two. Also, can only get 11 DBL heat sink in there with the XL350. Still, heat efficiency with 11 DBLs is better than my 4LL 15 DBLs build.

Edited by operator0, 07 March 2013 - 08:11 AM.

[operator0]

Monky, on 06 March 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Arguably it's due to the size of the shell - a bigger shell travels less distance before losing speed, but has much more follow through. Think musket ball vs catapult rock. Granted, it's a crude comparison, and the scaling damage past max range on MWO's ballistics really doesn't reflect that they're all HEAP rounds anyways, but it's roughly the principle behind it. Also, don't look too deep into the physics of it, at a certain, fairly shallow point, none of it makes any sense whatsoever.

In Naval Gunfire Support (NGFS), artillery and tank rounds, heavier rounds travel further. This has everything to do with mass of the shell and caliber of the barrel (cannon caliber is different than small arms caliber). In MWO, they have reversed the physics for play balance and I'm OK with it.

[Ecouto]

Too poor for those hero mechs :c Aint nobody got time for dat !

[Wizard Steve]

MadBomberMan, on 06 March 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

I'm 2/2 happy right now with the Yen-Lo-Wang (from the 30% off sale) and now the Cicada X5 Hero Mechs.

Are there any other Hero Mech Recommendations out there? I like all weight classes, and to me the YLW and the X5 are what I would call "Focused." What other Hero Mechs might I like?

Can we get a Dragon Hero Mech in the future?

My two favourite Hero Mechs (I've bought them all) are the YLW and X5. If you like them for the same reasons I do (and it sounds like it) then you have the two best hero mechs.

The Ilya Muromets is pretty decent but not really different to the other Cataphracts. The Flame is the better of the two Dragon hero mechs and is different enough to the other dragons but is more a generalist than a focussed mech in my opinion. It favours a mixed loudout (energy, ballistic, missile).

The Death's Knell is a one build wonder and the Pretty Baby and Fang suffer from the same problem as the Ilya Muromets.

You won't be disappointed by the Ilya Muromets or the Flame but I don't think they have the same qualities that the YLW and the X5 have.

[Terror Teddy]

MadBomberMan, on 06 March 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Cicada X5, oh my goodness.

See? This is what I'm talking about when I say "Focused Hero Mechs" Bravo

I was pleasantly surprised with LRM5 X2 and ML X4 and a lower XL engine for 113km/h and a beagle probe.

First match was 2 kills and 4 assists and about 450 damage and was the last standing on the field.

Basically a lighter faster variant of my HBK-4SP with the same armament but a lot faster. The secre was not to be in a rush to be in combat.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 07 March 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Kunae]

Rayzor, on 06 March 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sucks that I thought of a decent Flame build after I sold it...

[Wrenchfarm]

To me the hero mechs are more about personal taste and you're personal desire for an Cbill booster. This can be particularly handy if you are already looking to master the chassis, a hero variant will help you net some extra coin while grinding.

In terms of strict effectiveness, the Illya stands alone. It offers powerful builds no other Phract can pull off.

Otherwise it's a matter of taste. I like the YLW, but I'm weird. I have a Pretty Baby I like to call the "Buyers Remorse." It isn't terrible, but I paid $30 for it and still spend far more time in my AWE-9M than I do in it, so that should tell you something.

If you must have a hero Dragon, the Flame is actually neat. It too can make builds no other Dragon can, some of which are very powerful. But at the end of the day, it's still a Dragon, the "also-ran" of the heavy mech category. Avoid the Fang like the plague.

The Death Knell seems like an inferior Commando, the X-5 is a big Jenner with no jets. I don't see a reason to buy either of them unless you really love the chassis or are desperate for a cheap Cbill booster.

[Murku]

FLAME

350XL, 16DHS(14 in engine), MPL, 2 PPC, SRM4. Endo, Ferro.

The math is too perfect.

[Terror Teddy]

Wrenchfarm, on 07 March 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

The Death Knell seems like an inferior Commando, the X-5 is a big Jenner with no jets. I don't see a reason to buy either of them unless you really love the chassis or are desperate for a cheap Cbill booster.

DK with 1 ERPPC / 2ML /1 Tag and XL engine is FUN

[Volume]

1: There are already Dragon hero 'mechs. Two of them, in fact.

2: The X-5 is not a trial 'mech, it'sa hero 'mech.

[Mahws]

epsilon26, on 07 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Mahws, this is about as close as I can get to your build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...620cf1cbe5b5e4c

Not sure where you're getting the room for a second Double heatsink. I haven't personally run it yet, but it looks like it'll be more than find heatwise. After some testing I might drop the 1 extra heatsink in the engine for another ton of ammo depending how a few games go.

Operator0's build doesn't have full armor. Personally I'd advise against full armor on any dragon, at least on the legs if you can use the tonnage for anything else. I can recall losing a leg exactly once in mastering the four basic + flame variants.

For example my Flame runs:
Center Torso: 60/20 (Every bit of front CT armor helps on a Dragon, stock puts too much on the rear).
Side Torsos: 32/16 (Never lose them before I lose my CT, no matter how good your torso twisting is. From the side they're covered by the arms, from the front they're a tiny target).
Arms: 33
Legs: 30
(Disclaimer: I run an AC20 + STD300 build, you'll probably want to up the side torso armor using a Gauss just for safety's sake. I rarely lose the AC20, but at least it doesn't kill me when I do ).

Other than that, Gauss Ammo doesn't explode, so you should always pack in as much in the same component as the Gauss itself, they'll pad out the section reducing the chances of the Guass being critical hit somewhat. Not a huge concern in the Flame as that's pretty uncommon, but still.

Edited by Mahws, 07 March 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[MadBomberMan]

Lots of good stuff here, thanks for the tips.
Ahh [EDIT: THE] X-5, like the p e n t i u m processor chips when first widely advertised in the 90's, it just looks so futuristic, and efficient, lots of punch for the 'pull'.

As for the Hero Dragon Mechs, with the recent 30% off sale, I picked up both of them.
After maxing out basic for both with the X2 exp boost this weekend, here's what I came up with

I liked the stock Fang better than the stock Flame. IMHO X1 LRM5 is worthless, especially without Artemis.
Both mechs seem to overheat very quickly, or if I customize with additional Heat Sinks, they seem very stuffy and claustrophobic as I seem to run out of tonnage, or Slots etc. Cramped comes to mind.

Right now I have the Fang setup with very fun 2 AC/2's, X2ML, X1SRM6 loadout.
Basically left click for AC/2, Right Click AC/2, MB3 within 270m for Surprise!
I did try an X4 Flamer Flame build, but ended up with a not so exciting X4ML X1SRM6 and 400 Armor rating (285 engine)
I do like my AMS so that takes up 2.5 tons.

Somebody reccomended X4ML and Gauss with XL360...I will need more CBills before I can even try.
Both mech feel so crowded, I will have to try some of your suggestions...

Not like my seemingly wide open Hunchback with X2 ER LL, and X6SL.18...18...18...36...18...
Or X3LRM10 +Artemis/TAG Trebuchet. It doesnt have enough tubes to shoot them all at once so you get a big cluster followed by a long trail of missiles. 1045 damage scored once a single pub match.
>

Edited by MadBomberMan, 31 March 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[MadBomberMan]

Wizard Steve, on 07 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

You won't be disappointed by the Ilya Muromets or the Flame but I don't think they have the same qualities that the YLW and the X5 have.

IMHO THE X-5 has a big "WildCard" factor, or "Force Multiplier" or even cartoonlike "TILT" quality to it.Sure the potential for someone to land a high alpha on you and end your game early is always present, but it can fulfill a variety of roles. No one likes getting zapped for 20 per click (you could probably sneak in 2 clicks before they can even respond if your opponent is unaware), and connecting the extra 10 missile damage...Well, I've never liked SRM2's as much as I do on this mech.

[Cato Phoenix]

I saw a 3UAC5 3 MPL that was beasting around.