16 replies to this topic

[Monky]

PGI, with this changed plan for consumables, and a little bit of liquor, I have concocted a way for you to once again earn my money. I got a refund in CBT when the Yen Lo Wang was announced, because personally, I refuse to fund any game where anything that affects combat (even if very minor) can only be acquired by money.

Sure, the Yen Lo Wang turned out to actually be a little under powered, but I was steadied by the release of the Ilya and the Flame, and now the X5.

However, the structure you've chosen for consumables seems almost identical to one I recommended for hero mechs;

MC to acquire now, long grind and high c-bill cost to acquire for free. This plan has been modified from when I first posted it but here it is;

first, hero mechs for MC users stay as-is.

second, for F2P users, you have a 'rental' system that lets you try the mech (like a trial mech but it costs you maybe 100-500k c-bills depending on the mech). This lets you try the stock version if that's what you're interested in.

third, for F2P users; The Real End Game Content ™. 30k GXP to unlock a hero mech for purchase with C-Bills, and 2-5x the cost (depending on what you prefer) to buy the mech. Further, you must have 3 mechs of that chassis mastered. A grand quest, and within what I would accept for being able to fund your game. You do this, I re-buy my founders package even if it means I don't get my founders mechs.

Please consider this. I want to support you guys.

Edit; I meant to include 'acquire for free without c-bill bonus'. I am fine with that being payed only. Skins are optional too; do what you feel is fair. Just let the battlefield be even.

Edited by Egomane, 07 March 2013 - 12:39 AM.
Changed poll to follow the rules

[OneEyed Jack]

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I fail to grasp the logic of "I'll only pay if I can have everything for free."

If they did this, would it be the MC paints/camos next or cockpit items.?

[Monky]

Yes yes, of course, everything for free. Must have precious!

Seriously though, just things that affect combat. I was willing to pay for this game before, and I am very close to willing to pay again, even without the bonuses I previously had (founders mechs). I suppose you could call it 'the principle of the thing' but there is also the obvious miss-step that will eventually come of an OP hero mech. If PGI takes this tack that I recommend, it proves they are anti P2W, and it earns back my loyalty and money. I can't really clarify beyond that because the reasons are obvious to me, and I can't grasp how someone else couldn't grasp those same reasons.

Edit: Ah, ETHICS, that's the word I was looking for. Been drinking a little tonight. Kind of like, being willing to pay more for eggs or milk from humanely treated animals, even though it doesn't affect the end product much.

Edited by Monky, 06 March 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[Tarman]

I'd back this idea, there's some good points in here. Giving out a taste of the heroes is a slick way to sell them too. You can test drive it, and then either drop the MC or start playing a lot more to get your cool ride. Either way is win for the game at large.

OneEyed Jack, on 06 March 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I fail to grasp the logic of "I'll only pay if I can have everything for free."

If they did this, would it be the MC paints/camos next or cockpit items.?

The logic is the less game-affecting content you HAVE to pay for, the more you're likely to spring for your stuff out of a sense of "hey, they're not trying to screw me here, and I may as well get some fun extras too." This sounds insane on paper but it works. You want people to have lots of choices with their entertainment budget. Also, it lets PGI build Heroes with slightly more leeway without heading P2W. Like Monky mentioned, they're not considered such right now, but they're grey. This idea backs off the greyness and adds another avenue to keep players around longer.

Player retention even of 100% free players is essential for this business model because of the "players are content" angle of the model and the need for as large a base as possible. More players means everyone has better games, and many players who stay will eventually drop some kind of real cash or even become regular spenders.


Edit: I have developed an uncanny power to be in any teleported thread. Start in GD, end up somewhere else. MAGIC

Edited by Tarman, 06 March 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[Monky]

Tarman, on 06 March 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

I'd back this idea, there's some good points in here. Giving out a taste of the heroes is a slick way to sell them too. You can test drive it, and then either drop the MC or start playing a lot more to get your cool ride. Either way is win for the game at large.





The logic is the less game-affecting content you HAVE to pay for, the more you're likely to spring for your stuff out of a sense of "hey, they're not trying to screw me here, and I may as well get some fun extras too." This sounds insane on paper but it works. You want people to have lots of choices with their entertainment budget. Also, it lets PGI build Heroes with slightly more leeway without heading P2W. Like Monky mentioned, they're not considered such right now, but they're grey. This idea backs off the greyness and adds another avenue to keep players around longer.

Player retention even of 100% free players is essential for this business model because of the "players are content" angle of the model and the need for as large a base as possible. More players means everyone has better games, and many players who stay will eventually drop some kind of real cash or even become regular spenders.


Edit: I have developed an uncanny power to be in any teleported thread. Start in GD, end up somewhere else. MAGIC

Thank you, very concisely explains a lot of it. I think mods moved the thread. Sad, because most threads go to the suggestions forums to die. Oh well.

Edited by Monky, 06 March 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Tarman]

I did see you posted this idea in the main new consumables thread, maybe they'll see it. It's an idea I think would be a good plan for them. Keep bugging them about it.

[Monky]

Since most 'suggestion' posts tend to be low feedback, I'm adding a poll. And yes, I'll keep bothering about it.

[ragingmunkyz]

I voted yes, and not just because you are similarly incapable of correctly spelling the word "Munky."

A good F2P structure is always build on the idea that you pay for convenience or cosmetics, but allow players who are willing to devote a lot of time to achieve the same things in the end. The new GXP for better consumables is a good representation of this, and so is the idea of applying a similar concept to hero mechs.

I will add a small caveat to this suggestion: While I don't own any hero mechs, I might understand if some players who already spent the MC thinking they were buying something exclusive felt a bit slighted. Exclusivity does still exist, look at the founders stuff. Perhaps give those who already bought hero mechs a free exclusive skin for said mechs, or free cockpit miniature of their mech or something?

Edited by ragingmunkyz, 06 March 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[Monky]

ragingmunkyz, on 06 March 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

I voted yes, and not just because you are similarly incapable of correctly spelling the word "Munky."

A good F2P structure is always build on the idea that you pay for convenience or cosmetics, but allow players who are willing to devote a lot of time to achieve the same things in the end. The new GXP for better consumables is a good representation of this, and so is the idea of applying a similar concept to hero mechs.

I will add a small caveat to this suggestion: While I don't own any hero mechs, I might understand if some players who already spent the MC thinking they were buying something exclusive felt a bit slighted. Exclusivity does still exist, look at the founders stuff. Perhaps give those who already bought hero mechs a free exclusive skin for said mechs, or free cockpit miniature of their mech or something?

Exactly, they probably shouldn't let the hero mechs bought with c-bills have the c-bill bonus or hero skin. That stuff is entirely fine being behind a pay wall because it doesn't impact match to match performance, and it keeps them special for the people who payed for them (and continues to make it a viable source of income as every poll I've seen states c-bill bonus as the main reason to pay mc for a hero mech). The post that included an X5 Cicada with an alternate skin is a good sign - it means it would be even easier to implement if they're working on the paint structure already.

Edited by Monky, 06 March 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[Egomane]

Changed the poll to follow the rules for suggestion polling.
http://mwomercs.com/...estion-polling/

Please remember to mark future polls in this sub-forum as public votes.

[Volthorne]

I think that you set the bar WAAAAAAY too low for the GXP unlock IF this was going to be a thing (I have a sneaking suspicion it will not be). 30k GXP is peanuts for some players. To make it even remotely comparable, the cost would need to be hundreds of thousands of GXP, firstly, and 10x the cost of what it would normally be in CBills. You want paid content for "free"? You need to WORK for it.

Edited by Volthorne, 07 March 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[Monky]

Volthorne, on 07 March 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

I think that you set the bar WAAAAAAY too low for the GXP unlock IF this was going to be a thing (I have a sneaking suspicion it will not be). 30k GXP is peanuts for some players. To make it even remotely comparable, the cost would need to be hundreds of thousands of GXP, firstly, and 10x the cost of what it would normally be in CBills. You want paid content for "free"? You need to WORK for it.

I'm fine with that. Whatever numbers PGI sees fit will work.

[Monky]

Egomane, on 07 March 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Changed the poll to follow the rules for suggestion polling.
http://mwomercs.com/...estion-polling/

Please remember to mark future polls in this sub-forum as public votes.

Whoops! must have missed the update to the rules here. At least my poll basically had the same options, just different verbage.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

I'd certainly go for this, even if I don't get the CB bonus.

I love the design of the Ilya, but I don't want to drop the money for it. I would be willing to save up a lot of CB and GXP for it though.

[Monky]

I'd be willing to consider even 100 million c-bills for a hero atlas fair enough to say that free to play is the style of MWO. And we're talking an atlas with no 30% cbill bonus and no special skin, only the hardpoint layout being the reason for acquiring it. On top of this, I'd say even 100k GXP and 3 mastered variants of that chassis (meaning, in the case of an atlas, an additional 30 million c-bills sunk into buying those chassis) as viable requirements. I think it -should- scale based on the MC price, and simply be multiplicative. In the atlas case used above, most atlai are 9-11 million c-bills, so 10x would be 100 million roughly, give or take for the exact price. a hero flea with basic tech, would probably come in around 20 million or so. The GXP requirements should probably be the same as that is the main grind anyways.

An additional arguement to consider - this creates more end-game content for free players, which keeps people in matches to be shot at. And with a long grind for very end game content, you'll probably see people just say 'I think I'll just buy it'.

Edited by Monky, 08 March 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[Jetfire]

Hero Mech's do not pose the same problem and do not need the same solution.

[Monky]

Can you elaborate on that? They pose the same problem to -me- hence why I got my refund.

Edited by Monky, 08 March 2013 - 01:23 PM.