400 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

armyof1, on 10 March 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

AMS isn't a worth the space and weight. You only shoot down 3-5 lrms per volley, how many would you need to defend yourself from 45 lrms? Yeah that's right, even with 8 mechs with AMS glued together like sardines in a can you'd still get lrms coming through from a single volley from an LRMboat. Don't use AMS as an argument, it's worthless.
I've no idea when that was and how they've tweaked AMS, I've only been playing since OB. I certainly haven't seen any outcry about AMS being really useful during the time I've been playing, because it's crap pure and simple. Just try it, stand out in the open and let an LRMboat fire at you with that wonderful AMS equipped. You'll shoot down a few of the first ones that come close to you, and if you'd been running a light or faster medium it's those first missiles you'd have avoided while running away anyway. Even the horrible MG would be of more use for the same weight than AMS.

I'm a bit mystified that you have such strong opinions when the claims you make to support your argument actually work against you. Given your own numbers, you're looking at a 6.7%-11.1% damage reduction from that missile boat - and most likely you're going to get the 11.1% reduction due to the streaming effect of firing 45 LRMS (and most boats' desire to stay at long range.) So, you're looking at a ten percent damage reduction and saying "that's worthless," yet you also claim that LRMS are too powerful and should be nerfed.

Which is it? If LRMs are "op," then taking an 11.1% reduction in their power for 6.25% of the weight of just the launchers for 45 Artemis LRMS is a good deal - and you'd want every advantage you can get against that "op" weapon. If, on the other hand, that 11.1% reduction is "worthless," and you don't want it, it means that LRMs aren't strong enough for you to want an 11.1% stacking reduction in their damage for your team, so they can't be that "op." Please select one point of view and argue that - you're giving me a headache.

Edited by Void Angel, 10 March 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Griffinhart]

One Medic Army, on 07 March 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

The A1 has pretty good stock armor, same with the Atlas.
I'm mainly going by how concentrated the damage was.

Atlas took almost all to CT, A1 took most to CT, and Jenner took it like a sandblaster.

LRM damage in the testing grounds has nothing to do with damage in a live game. In the testing grounds I can alpha 5 LRM15 and kill an Atlas instantly. this simply doesn't even come close to the reality of LRM's against an Atlas in an actual match. Don't believe me? take that same mech out into a real game and see how many one shots you get with it.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

LRMs are way 2 much! Next to this new ELO I dont know how much longer Im going to stay around. Its a shame I was starting to talk myself into spending real money on this game. Thats off for the foreseeable future.

[Max Genius]

Revorn, on 10 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Rofl, your Elo must be pretty low to meet such LRMBoaters. Sounds more like pre ECM Boating, but even in the early times, it was not the best strategie for LRMing. imho

You then just supported the point of this thread. You obviously think that the LRMBoats I meet are not good players yet they are very effective in the matches. Low skills + LRMs still able to take out or incpacitate mechs? That seems to mean that not much skills needed to use LRMs. Something fundamentally wrong being able to kill mechs without even seeing them. I have respect for ERPPC and Gauss snipers because they actually have to do aiming and timing to hit their targets.

BTW, what was your overall standing after the tournament - since you seem to think highly of your abilities and you perceive you have hi ELO.

[Lyrik]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 10 March 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

LRMs are way 2 much! Next to this new ELO I dont know how much longer Im going to stay around. Its a shame I was starting to talk myself into spending real money on this game. Thats off for the foreseeable future.

What has Elo to do with LRM???

If you are getting killed too often by LRM than you should change something. Like AMS; faster Engine, using Cover, be more aware of your sourrondings, buy an ECM mech or get a sniper build to drive the LRM mechs back into cover.

[Vocis]

One Medic Army, on 07 March 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

Ok, so on the testing grounds with 2x ARtemisLRM10s+TAG:
4 volleys to core an A1
3 volleys to kill a Jenner (second volley left it with no armor except cockpit)
6 volleys to core an atlas (barely orange on side torsos)
1 volley to kill a commando (no surprise there)

It seems pretty clear that the pattern's been tightened up a bit, enough so that on large slow targets the majority of missiles will hit CT (on an LRM10+Artemis_TAG).
I also noticed the missiles separated into 2 groups in flight, one trailing slightly.

80 Tubes to core an A1
60 Tubes to core a Jenner
120 Tubes to core an Atlas
20 Tubes to core a Commando

60 Tubes is common for an LRM boat.

So two volleys from a single LRM boat, or 1 volley from two and you can core an Atlas, from 1000 meters, with no LOS.

[Revorn]

Max Genius, on 10 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

You then just supported the point of this thread. You obviously think that the LRMBoats I meet are not good players yet they are very effective in the matches. Low skills + LRMs still able to take out or incpacitate mechs? That seems to mean that not much skills needed to use LRMs. Something fundamentally wrong being able to kill mechs without even seeing them. I have respect for ERPPC and Gauss snipers because they actually have to do aiming and timing to hit their targets.

BTW, what was your overall standing after the tournament - since you seem to think highly of your abilities and you perceive you have hi ELO.

Hehe, no no, wrong turn, im not a good player at all, my Elo is deep as the Hell. , thats for sure. But using LRMs that way semms even to me not verry skilled. Anyway.

Being able to hit without seeing the enemy, is the orginal purpose of the LRMs, well at least before ECM. You remember, Long Range Indirect Fire Support.

The Skills needed for that Role simply otherones than Point and Klick.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Ok just think about the word "skill" for a minute.

Now look at what it takes to use LRM. You get a red box then you put your cross hairs in that box until it locks. Then you pres your fire button. Thats not skill thats button mashing. Just like everything in this game. Skill is in piloting and aiming non lockable weapons and hitting target. And that truly does not take "skill" ether, just eye hand coordination.


Someone who can open your brain and remove something that should not be there then put you back together... now that's skill!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 10 March 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[Revorn]

Vocis, on 10 March 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

60 Tubes is common for an LRM boat.

So two volleys from a single LRM boat, or 1 volley from two and you can core an Atlas, from 1000 meters, with no LOS.

Nice to read, so my 30 Tubes on my Cent are no Boat, cool.

The Atlas Pilot you are coring in your Example, is btw maybe felt asleep? Using LRMs at 1000m, is most times a Waste of Ammo. imho.

[Vocis]

Positioning is as much a skill as aiming.

Good LRM players are much more effective than poor LRM players.

[Lyrik]

Revorn, on 10 March 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hehe, no no, wrong turn, im not a good player at all, my Elo is deep as the Hell. , thats for sure. But using LRMs that way semms even to me not verry skilled. Anyway.

Being able to hit without seeing the enemy, is the orginal purpose of the LRMs, well at least before ECM. You remember, Long Range Indirect Fire Support.

The Skills needed for that Role simply otherones than Point and Klick.

If you think that indirect fire is too overpowered than I have bad news for you.

You are a really bad player.

Indirect LRM's are probably more inefficient than Machineguns. Flamers are more op than indirect fire. If you are getting regularly killed by indirect LRM fire than you are sitting still in an open plain while not killing the spotter. Stop it. Move.

[Praehotec8]

Vocis, on 10 March 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

80 Tubes to core an A1
60 Tubes to core a Jenner
120 Tubes to core an Atlas
20 Tubes to core a Commando

60 Tubes is common for an LRM boat.

So two volleys from a single LRM boat, or 1 volley from two and you can core an Atlas, from 1000 meters, with no LOS.

Well, on alpine the other night my 2X LRM 20 + artemis stalker with direct LOS was able to hit a K-2 cat and not kill it. Sure it was hurting, but I was taking damage as well from it's PPCs, and it never tried to move. Seems like a reasonable amount of damage. Sounds like your complaint is more with taking large numbers of a given weapon system than the weapon itself.

On the other hand, how many mechs besides assaults can carry 3+ LRM20s and enough ammo to use them (without ridiculously low armored heavies)? I still maintain that if you're using your assaults consistently as LRM boats, you're depriving your team of a valuable tank/brawler.

When I've tried to use pure LRM boats in the past, I generally find I either do 900+ damage because the other team was foolish, or 100 as I get hunted down quickly by lights I can't counter. Never managed to be consistent. Maybe I'm not good enough with them but I just don't see the "LRM boats are pwn everything!!!1" that some describe. Good sometimes, but also situational.

[Max Genius]

Vocis, on 10 March 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Positioning is as much a skill as aiming.

Good LRM players are much more effective than poor LRM players.

Poor LRM players can take out another non-LRM skilled player with the help of a skilled team mate with TAG. In fact that poor LRM player can take out more than 1 skilled player in the same game.

[Revorn]

Lyrik, on 10 March 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

If you think that indirect fire is too overpowered than I have bad news for you.

You are a really bad player.

Indirect LRM's are probably more inefficient than Machineguns. Flamers are more op than indirect fire. If you are getting regularly killed by indirect LRM fire than you are sitting still in an open plain while not killing the spotter. Stop it. Move.

Uhmm, maybe i missspelled something. I dont think that indirect Fire or LRMs in general are OP. Iam LRM Boating myself. Sry if i wasnt correct in my grammar or something else.

[Lyrik]

Revorn, on 10 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Uhmm, maybe i missspelled something. I dont think that indirect Fire or LRMs in general are OP. Iam LRM Boating myself. Sry if i wasnt correct in my grammar or something else.

Sorry, I think I your misreaded your post :-(

[Revorn]

Max Genius, on 10 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Poor LRM players can take out another non-LRM skilled player with the help of a skilled team mate with TAG. In fact that poor LRM player can take out more than 1 skilled player in the same game.

Can, uhmm, maybe, eventually, sometimes, with some Luck,ect. ect .............. Yeh, even 4 Machinegunns can take out an skilled Atlas. Nerf Machinegunns.

[Max Genius]

Revorn, on 10 March 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

Can, uhmm, maybe, eventually, sometimes, with some Luck,ect. ect .............. Yeh, even 4 Machinegunns can take out an skilled Atlas. Nerf Machinegunns.

I'm pretty sure that if stats were taken, there would be many more deaths from LRMs than machine guns....much much more. Tell me this, have you played a match where there are no LRMs used lately? I've played many matches where there were no flamers or machine guns. Why is that? Because flamers and machine guns are not game changers. LRMs definitely are.

I was actually fine with LRMs before when they all didn't hit the same spot so much. Now not only does it cluster, it homes in on the CT.

Edited by Max Genius, 10 March 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Vocis, on 10 March 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

80 Tubes to core an A1
60 Tubes to core a Jenner
120 Tubes to core an Atlas
20 Tubes to core a Commando

60 Tubes is common for an LRM boat.

So two volleys from a single LRM boat, or 1 volley from two and you can core an Atlas, from 1000 meters, with no LOS.

No.
That's with TAG and Artemis.
Meaning 750m with line of sight.

Oh, and it gives a warning and takes several seconds to arrive.

Griffinhart, on 10 March 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

LRM damage in the testing grounds has nothing to do with damage in a live game. In the testing grounds I can alpha 5 LRM15 and kill an Atlas instantly. this simply doesn't even come close to the reality of LRM's against an Atlas in an actual match. Don't believe me? take that same mech out into a real game and see how many one shots you get with it.

Couple things.
1: I'm an LRM supporter
2: I use no more than 30 tubes on any of my mechs
3: I cannot actually play the game since last patch outside of training grounds. Every time I enter an actual match I crash to mechlab. Yes I already did a clean reinstall.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Revorn, on 10 March 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Nice to read, so my 30 Tubes on my Cent are no Boat, cool.

The Atlas Pilot you are coring in your Example, is btw maybe felt asleep? Using LRMs at 1000m, is most times a Waste of Ammo. imho.

thats absolute fact not opinion and he's lying if he's saying he is coring people at max range with lrms. If you arent do us a favor.
Upload a video of you doing this in a few matches (non testing grounds) to Youtube and link it.

[Vocis]

One Medic Army, on 10 March 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

No.
That's with TAG and Artemis.
Meaning 750m with line of sight.

Oh, and it gives a warning and takes several seconds to arrive.

Yes.

Take the Trail Treb' to the Training grounds. You'll get almost identical results with 30 non-tag non-Artemis tubes.