78 replies to this topic

[WalkingDeathBot]

Morang, on 31 May 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Even in WoT I never purposely suiscout. It may be my fault when I misplanned my route and ran into advancing enemy unable to take cover after I spot them - but never on purpose. After scouting and/or counterscouting is done and main engagement is on the way, I either work as a disctraction (trying to take enemies in the back or to detrack them) or try to find a weak spot in their line and charge for arty/base.

Sure there are plenty of tankers who are great scouts. Then there are the masses that take fast tanks whether scouts, or french tanks (basically the equivalent of fast mechs with fast firing guns) and insta-die by charging full speed at the enemy alone.

I'm really curious to see how the light mechs play out. Unfortunately, my ping will be way too bad to try them.

[Woodstock]

Jack Simmons, on 30 May 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

I don't think it will be an issue, since the Light Mechs can hurt and destroy heavier Mechs.

AND one is NOT forced to start with a Light Mechs, one Dev stated they want New Players to start with Heavy/Assault Mechs since they allow for a wider Margin of Error.

Some people will surely do stupid things but thats happening in every game ^^

I agree.

In WoT light tanks feel useless because their weapons are unable to penetrate the armour of other tanks. So they suicide scout.

In MWO all weapons work on an ABLATIVE armour system. So Lights might take longer to kill someone but every hit will do damage.

Therefore no need to suicide.

also with the addition of a direct connection between scouting and indirect fire from LRM's it gives even more incentive to stay alive.

Edited by Woodstock, 31 May 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[Smellyshoes]

Draco Argentum, on 30 May 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

It happens in WoT because you get a reward for seeing an enemy for half a second then getting owned. As long as MWO doesn't give rewards for being totally useless sui scouting won't happen.

You have more faith than I do. Some people will do it just to be jerks.

[Ansel]

The issue in WoT that causes the light tanks to suicide isn't that they lack the ability to actualy scout for their team, its that the team dosn't understand how to use the scout when it is acting properly.

I have over 500 games in my t-50 ill give ya a rundown on why some people seem to suicide.

#1: When a player tries to scout in a more passive manner the heavier tanks do not sit further away and wait for you to see something they move right up to your position if you aren't getting shot. This means in order to scout you now have to get even closer and break your cammo net because you aren't doing your job if they heavy is right beside you. This gets passive scouts killed all the time because they constantly have to move ahead of a group of heavys and cannot set up their cammo.

#2: Some people aren't up to par doing hill running. This will get you killed fast if you do not have a lot of practice doing it and even then it can be a bit of a gamble. In order to get experiance doing this you must of course do it, and this will of course get you killed a lot, and that will look like a suicide in a lot of cases.

#3: There are people who just like to cause mayham and chaos. This works great on some maps and not so great on others, I have ran my tank into a large group of heavys before just to make them try to shoot me and the best part is when they miss and hit each other, I have actually caused a few team kills doing this. The major problem doing this is that again like hill running the only way to get any experiance doing this is to do it and die a hell of a lot while trying.

Edited by Ansel, 31 May 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[Woodstock]

Smellyshoes, on 31 May 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

You have more faith than I do. Some people will do it just to be jerks.

Quite possibly ... I am an optimist ... and there is no accounting for stupidity.

But I remain hopeful. the mechanics of WoT encourage this behaviour ... the mechanics of MWO won't sooooo ... I think the odds are in our favour

[Shivus]

The other issue with scouting in WoT is that you could scout a match perfectly. Light everything up, stay alive, and be the deciding factor for the win. But unless you also inflict a respectable amount of damage on top of all that, you'd still make less xp and credits than a heavy that inflicts his HP value in damage and dies.

I'm extremely curious to see how the exp and c-bill system scales in MWO, since it's going to heavily influence my choice of founder's mech.

[Woodstock]

I wont be going for a founder mech (they is all hugly) but I agree that the way that XP and C-bills are earned is a huge thing for how successful I see this game being.

[Agent Zer0]

KJ Crow, on 30 May 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

tsk tsk.... all this talk about damage dealing capability..... let the bruisers do that, guide their blows..... see one in trouble, dart in and tip the balance.... don't think of yourself as 4 med lasers on a Jenner.....think of yourself as 4 extra med lasers on your teammates Catapult.... be happy to find an out of the way vanatge point, shut down your mech and just feed spotting intel to your team while the coffee brews... fire up the throttle and distract them.....running from cover to cover, just fire the occasional shot to make them worry about where you will appear next.... if they are looking for you, they aren't looking for your team!

Scouting is about attitude and the embodiment of Infowarfare.... don't go toe to toe, it will get you killed.... and a dead scout can't feed any other info beyond the fact they got killed.... and no matter how good the communications systems are, I don't think a lance commander has the facilities or time to hold a seance!

Well said. This is exactly the type of mentality you should have if you are going to be an effective light mech pilot. Remember a Mechs rear armour is weaker in the rear.(Assuming the Devs kept to cannon in this) A light mech in the hands of the right pilot should have the speed and maneuverability to exploit this. As with any role maximize your strengths and minimize you weaknesses. This is a tactic that has been used for centuries against stronger foes. From the vids I've seen so far skill as a pilot will be as, if not more, vital as the loadout.

[Rodney28021]

With the Role Warfare and Info Warfare in MWO, Scouts are going to be usefully and vital in the battle. Scout will get xp for spotting enemy and if you have TAG and NARC beacons you can get more xp from kills. Your tactic should be run wide fast circle around the enemy and take shots at Back armor, or hiding in cover and using TAG while the team missile boat fires. Commandos don't have the scout gear that the Raven has so it would be more run and gun or hunting the enemy scout. Jenner has firepower, speed and jumpjets so it will be great at run and gun.

[TrOn1x]

I'm curious to see how this plays out on pickup games. What is the format for those? Random players? Respawn or No Respawn? Because if someone is being stupid as a scout then it puts the whole team in jeopardy.

[FactorlanP]

The answer to the question asked by the original poster is... wait for it... Yes, there will be suicide scouts in MWO...

But!

Rushing forward in a stupid fashion and getting toasted is unlikely to benefit your Lance mates much, so presumably the tactic will be frowned upon as wasteful.

[Saladin Yussuf]

I think some people will ..hell i might from time to time if im busy IRL. If critical reactor hits are in, might be worth it just to see the mini mushroom cloud. But, as has been demonstrated in WoT countless times if you spot and can stay alive you get more xp and more cash so, one could assume a scout staying alive as long as possible is a good thing. If you can be a passive scout and give eyes to your long rangers.

Time will tell.

[Dovoid]

I like to think of lights as the nagging thought in the back of an enemies head as he wants to go head to head with my heavy or assault

[Namwons]

the most unbalanced aspect of any pvp game is lvl (tier) difference bonuses. im glad MWO will have none of that

[Xantars]

the rules for a scout mech are simple.

1. locate the emeny and not get noticed.
2. Spot for friendly support units.
3. Distract then enemy when nessary
4. go in for the Kill when its safe to do so
5. Stay alive to fight again

If you can do these 5 simple things in a light mech you will be feared on the battle feild

[Shootanoob]

TrOn1x, on 07 June 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

[..] Respawn or No Respawn? Because if someone is being stupid as a scout then it puts the whole team in jeopardy.

... yeah, but the fact that he respawns maybe would only end up in he screws it up twice (and especially if there's a limited number of respawns shared by the whole team - like in Battlefield or so - that would be at least twice that annoying).

Personally I'm quite sure that the core community houses a lot of players which will use their lights as they're planned for: as scouts and skirmishers. In every BT-related game (TT or PC) it was always the biggest of the events if you have battled with freinds an then you met and bragged about how your Locust killed that wicked Crusader by pounding his behind till it blew.

Hit the big ones, make them worry about your punch in their back (if you x-check the readouts you'll find not one single Mech who could ignore a threat to his rear torso armor). And if you're not in position to risk your hide for some shot, take cover, stay alive, break off and fight on later in the battle.

It might be relatively unlikely to singlehandedly bring down one of the fellows 20 or more tons above your own weight in a 1:1 fight, but the good thing is, those situation would only come up if a) everything is already screwed up and your the last one standing, you overshot your aim a little and now finds out that a 35t Jenner is no invincible killer or c) your enemy has an at least equally skilled scout / anti-scout, which is preventing your mates from supporting you.

It's a team game, and although a good team will have no chance without significant punch from the big guys, they will also be severly hampered in their efforts if lacking a good scout (or two, three ... we will see)

Edited by BigPuma, 07 June 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

I am thinking of starting with a Light mech for scouting before I step into something heavier.

I play EVE Online and the frigates have their own uses as opposed to a battleship, even in a fleet. The most common scouts are Covert Ops Frigates or Interceptors and many people do form gangs of Assault Frigates.

[Xantars]

well with games be company on company 3 lance of 4 mechs. some teams will think thye dont need light mech because they are usless and that will cause them to get chewed up and spit out but a good recon for that will call in steel rain on them before the other company can even get in weapons range. a lance of support mechs all fireing on the same target will drop it really fast. Not many mech could take the 160 missle volley from a lance of catapults let alone two volleys. you just drop them one at a time untill contact is made and if your fire support team is good you should destroy one of there lances before contact with the main body is even made

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I don't scout much in lights but when I do, if the map allows, I prefer long range weapons rather than short so that I can get hits without having to get too close. TBH I prefer scout hunting/skirmishing in a medium with some scouting thrown in. Although only 5 tons heavier than a Jenner or Raven the Cicada can be much more survivable I think. For the same speed as a Jenner you can carry more armour and an ERPPC if you fit DHS. Depending on how it goes in game it could be a fun mech to pilot, its certainly capable of hurting Ravens and Commandos and even a Jenner if it can maintain the range and get a few hits in.

[Kobold]

The more I hear about WoT, the more I am glad I've never played it.