340 replies to this topic

[Red squirrel]

I love MGs ... but they are just crap.
There is no other reason to take them besides their cool sound and feel.

I am very disappointed that after 6+ months of useless MGs we now get this wanna be buff.

[Mike Townsend]

coolnames, on 09 March 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

When have I said that any build is better than anything else? I have not. I am defending a stance that playing a variant that can incorporate MGs is not useless. It can be functional, and do well for a team. Everything is situational...and if someone says that those 2+ tons are 'better off with more srm ammo', for instance, then they think that the situation where an MG would benefit would not occur as often as their SRM cycle time would allow.

It is almost like you are not comprehending what is being said in the video or in any of the pro-MG posts.





No engine crits ≠ useless to me bro.

The title of the thread is "Why you should machineguns". Your stance is that I should be using machineguns, which means ditching my Jenner for a Spider or 4x. This is terrible advice and I can only guess that you're giving it in hopes other people will take it and become easier targets.

[coolnames]

Mike Townsend, on 09 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

The title of the thread is "Why you should machineguns". Your stance is that I should be using machineguns, which means ditching my Jenner for a Spider or 4x. This is terrible advice and I can only guess that you're giving it in hopes other people will take it and become easier targets.

No, you are reading too much into a thread title and not reading the content of the OP or watching the video...or actually reading my responses to you. You are making assumptions and conclusions concerning my intentions that are false.

[One Medic Army]

Instead of using machine guns, I suggest just using a different mech.
Use a Trebuchet 3C instead of a Cent 9D.
Use a Raven 3L instead of a 4X
Use a Spider 5V/5D instead of a 5K
Use any other hunchback instead of a 4G
Use any other cicada instead of a 3C.
You are possibly slightly hotter, and slower at removing internals from opened sections, but you get: burst damage, ability to strip armor, ability to actually kill other mechs.

If someone could trade out the ballistic hardpoints for Energy or Missile hardpoints on the above listed variants, I bet you never see an MG again.

Edited by One Medic Army, 09 March 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Mike Townsend]

coolnames, on 09 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

No, you are reading too much into a thread title and not reading the content of the OP or watching the video...or actually reading my responses to you. You are making assumptions and conclusions concerning my intentions that are false.

So the purpose of the thread is actually to get people to watch the video, and the title is just link bait. Got it. I agree with OMA, unless you have no other choice because you are grinding, a better suggestion than "use machineguns" is "use another variant or chassis."

[coolnames]

Mike Townsend, on 09 March 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

So the purpose of the thread is actually to get people to watch the video, and the title is just link bait. Got it.

Thanks for sharing your opinion

[Buckminster]

One Medic Army, on 09 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

If someone could trade out the ballistic hardpoints for Energy or Missile hardpoints on the above listed variants, I bet you never see an MG again.

Nope. I love my no-heat crit killers.

Having a weapon that I can fire constantly between PPC blasts with my K2 is priceless.

[7c Nickel]

I have 3 machine guns on the Dragon I play most of the time. They are almost completely useless. I'd really like for them to be good. I made a thread a while back on the subject. For now, they're more or less just for show. I use them to shoot at my teammates without actually hurting them. Because machine guns are about as threatening as kitten farts.

Edited by 7c Nickel, 09 March 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[Sifright]

Buckminster, on 09 March 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Nope. I love my no-heat crit killers.

Having a weapon that I can fire constantly between PPC blasts with my K2 is priceless.

lol.

priceless, you use a heat heavy weapon and you deprived your self of two tonnes of heat sinks hahahaha.

[Buckminster]

Sifright, on 09 March 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

lol.

priceless, you use a heat heavy weapon and you deprived your self of two tonnes of heat sinks hahahaha.

Actually, I didn't. A DHS takes three slots, a MG takes one. Due to the AMS in my one torso, I can only fit three DHS on that side.

[Sifright]

Buckminster, on 10 March 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

Actually, I didn't. A DHS takes three slots, a MG takes one. Due to the AMS in my one torso, I can only fit three DHS on that side.

2 mgs 1 tonne of ammo 2 tonnes and 3 crit spaces either you could have fit a larger engine or you could stuck a heat sink in.

[Wintersdark]

Zeroskills, on 07 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

As far as I can tell, the only good use of a MG is to **** people off and get them to chase you.

I hear this a lot. "Machine guns annoy and harass!"

No they don't. It's not annoying to be shot with machine guns. It's mildly amusing. It just means if you've got armor, you can safely ignore them while you deal with threatening targets. If you don't have armor left somewhere, then yes they are a threat.... but so is literally anything else.

I've never heard anyone say getting shot with a machine gun irritated them. You know what I have heard? A lot? People laughing at the hapless MG mech. If they chase you, it's got nothing to do with the machine guns, and everything to do with your just being there. They'd have chased you no matter what weapons you had.

[MustrumRidcully]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

They'd have chased you no matter what weapons you had.

They may have not chased him if he had used a powerful weapon - chasing someone with a good weapon loadout it can be dangerous. Of course, sometimes you just can't ignore your re... *Jenner*

Err, where was I?

[Wintersdark]

I think I should step back a bit on this whole issue.

I feel that anyone dropping on the opposing team should be encouraged to equip machine guns. And with gusto!

Every mech they field with machine guns - particularly those MG-focussed mechs - is one fewer mech that can actually harm me.

Sure, a pair of players working in concert can strip armor and then destroy weapons... but if the MG weilding player had been in any other mech they'd have stripped my armor faster, and killed me sooner.

I'd always rather lose my weapons in a location than lose the whole location. Take the lasers off one of my dragon's arms instead of destroying the arm, PLEASE. This at least leaves me with a perfectly functioning shield arm to act as abalative armor vs. your friend, the only one of the pair of you that can actually harm me.

Just because machine guns do have a use, doesn't make that use a particularly good one, nor does it make those mechs a benefit to their team. As things currently stand, a machinegun heavy mech is a serious detriment to their team.


Crit seeking isn't useless, but it's not as good as actually damaging and destroying mechs. A disarmed mech can still absorb fire to protect a colleague, he can still capture bases, and prevent his own bases from being captured.

Now, if crits could damage/disable engines, arm actuators or other internal components, this would be an entirely different kettle of fish. But as it's limited to equipped components, it's just not as good as taking anything else. And on those mechs with no good options? It just makes those mechs purely bad.

[Deamhan]

So you compare 1 mpulse vs 4 mg?

How about 1mpulse vs 1 mg.....

Now keep in mind that you could have went longer with the mg (because it is % based) and the laser could've been instant for ya.

But what you really have to consider is the fact that with the space and tonnage the mg takes up, you can equip a more damaging laser and perhaps some more hs to fire that laser more often without overheating. The comparison needs to be between an optimal non machine gun load out vs your machine gun load out.

Then when you perform the experiment, you have to consider that with the optimal non machine gun loadout, you took the arm off with that shoulder. So with the mg load out, you have to strip the armor off both the side torso and arm and neutralize the weapons in both locations in order for it to be equivalent to what you did with the non mg load out.

You'll find that it takes you less time to simply destroy the side torso than it does to strip the armor off the side torso and arm and neutralize the weapons in both locations with an mg.

[ICEFANG13]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I hear this a lot. "Machine guns annoy and harass!"

No they don't. It's not annoying to be shot with machine guns. It's mildly amusing. It just means if you've got armor, you can safely ignore them while you deal with threatening targets. If you don't have armor left somewhere, then yes they are a threat.... but so is literally anything else.

I've never heard anyone say getting shot with a machine gun irritated them. You know what I have heard? A lot? People laughing at the hapless MG mech. If they chase you, it's got nothing to do with the machine guns, and everything to do with your just being there. They'd have chased you no matter what weapons you had.

They do annoy and harass.

Yourself, I mean whenever I've (rarely) used 4MGs, I can't hear what anyone else is saying over BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[Gremlich Johns]

Terror Teddy, on 09 March 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

I bolded a few parts here.

Find me a .50 caliber weighting HALF A TONNE. Mech mounted "machine guns" are not man portable and a .50 caliber machine gun IS.

20mm machine guns are mounted on ships today and are used as anti-air weapons and the US military has 40mm grenade machine guns weighting under 50 kilograms.

So it's not a pair of M60's we are talking about and the bloody ammo weights half a kilo per bullet.

That's why I suggest an MG-array of four. THEN the weapon-thing (4xMGs with the necessary structures) and its ammo (2,000 rnds) might weight a ton. I've loaded a ton of machine gun ammo, both the 7.62mm and .50cal kind. it is a LOT of ammo. How about a MG-qarray with one load of ammo is 1 ton, an additional load of ammo is in .5 ton increments (2,000 rnds of 25mm @ 500rnds per MG).

[coolnames]

Wintersdark, on 10 March 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I hear this a lot. "Machine guns annoy and harass!"

No they don't. It's not annoying to be shot with machine guns. It's mildly amusing. It just means if you've got armor, you can safely ignore them while you deal with threatening targets. If you don't have armor left somewhere, then yes they are a threat.... but so is literally anything else.

I've never heard anyone say getting shot with a machine gun irritated them. You know what I have heard? A lot? People laughing at the hapless MG mech. If they chase you, it's got nothing to do with the machine guns, and everything to do with your just being there. They'd have chased you no matter what weapons you had.

I do not agree. It is rational to understand they do no damage to armor, and ignore the MGs being shot at your mech. But, MGs pester just like a fly buzzing around your ear...Here is a good example from my experiences:

Every single LRM missileboat I find out on his own that is raining down missiles on my team will freak out when I start laying into him...so much so that he stops shooting LRMs at my team and focuses on how to get away from me. Sure, the same response is likely when being shot with any weapon, but the same thing happens when in my 3C or 5K pelting them with MGs and a single laser.

So, there is one example.

[Sifright]

coolnames, on 10 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

I do not agree. It is rational to understand they do no damage to armor, and ignore the MGs being shot at your mech. But, MGs pester just like a fly buzzing around your ear...Here is a good example from my experiences:

Every single LRM missileboat I find out on his own that is raining down missiles on my team will freak out when I start laying into him...so much so that he stops shooting LRMs at my team and focuses on how to get away from me. Sure, the same response is likely when being shot with any weapon, but the same thing happens when in my 3C or 5K pelting them with MGs and a single laser.

So, there is one example.

that has more to do with them realising they are out of position and drawing you into their own team mates so you get popped with the minimum of fuss.

[Terror Teddy]

Gremlich Johns, on 10 March 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

That's why I suggest an MG-array of four.

Well, the MG array is another weapon entirely and consists of 2-4 of light or heavy mg's.

They would cost more.

The main problem is not the DPS they put out but rather how much raw damage per shot and how much damage per tonne they do.

They need to up the damge per tonne to 150 and give us a meaningful actual damage per shot. Right now we do HALF of what any other ballistic weapon do in FOUR TIMES the time per tonne.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 10 March 2013 - 01:01 PM.