340 replies to this topic

[Inappropriate1191]

You know what else is good at taking out internals? EVERYTHING ELSE. Machine guns are the biggest waste of tonnage and space since Flamers.

[Lefty Lucy]

Cest7, on 07 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Go for 4 or don't bother bringing any lol

[GameGenie]

MG builds work. Just cause you want 4xAc/2 @ no weight doesn't mean MGs are bad. Nothing is as good at destroying weapons on a de-armored target than MGs- If you don't understand why that's good, then I understand why you won't use them.

[aniviron]

I answer OP's video with the video of OP in another thread: http://mwomercs.com/...f-machine-guns/

Yes, the MGs do destroy the weapons fairly quickly once the armor is gone. But so does every other weapon, and every other weapon can do it from >90m, and can take the armor off in addition to the crits. If you could get engine crits, that'd be a different matter, but as is the MGs are just bad.

[One Medic Army]

You're better off bringing a bigger gun and just blowing off said component, plus being able to strip armor on your own.

The only time I'd think of wanting one is when I want to crit things but not blow up the component, like when you're hunting for leg ammo.

Crits in TT weren't about shutting down weapons as much as they were about hindering the mech.
Crit the engine and they have increased heat generation, crit an actuator and the mech has some serious penalties.
Crit gyro or life support and it's a big disadvantage to them.
Crit ammo and the mech will blow up.

Right now the only things we can crit are engines, ammo, and heatsinks (oh, and ECM/BAP/JJs)
People have enough heatsinks in the engine to get by generally, weapons in exposed sections will get blown off fairly quickly regardless, only ammo is still worth critting.

Edited by One Medic Army, 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[Royalewithcheese]

There was exactly one time in my experience a 4xMG Spider has dome something worthwhile. I remember it like it was yesterday...

I'm trading shots with a Cataphract. My back armor's gone in an unrelated incident. This spider comes up from behind and spams machineguns while I blow up his teammate. He blows out most of my weapons, allowing his teammate to b l o w me (lol wordfilter) up at the cost of half of his mech. If the MG Spider had been literally anything else he would have cored me or forced me to turn, saving half his teammate's mech.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[coolnames]

ICEFANG13, on 07 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

MGs are worthless. Why bring a weapon that can crit internals instead of weapons that can blow the arm off?

Because you can't bring multiple hard hitting weapons in a couple of the scout variants.

Why is the 'use a better weapon' argument even used when considering variants like CDA-3C? To use a better weapon, you have to make space and slow the mech down...and it stops becoming a scout.

[ferranis]

Sorry Boss, not dakka enuff.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I messed around in the Training area a little, and just found that 3MG will crit-out the weapons from armorless parts as quickly as twin LL beams will while the beam is active. So, in theory, MG's might be good for something.

3MG didn't do squat for killing engines, though... just weapons and stuff.

[Lefty Lucy]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Because you can't bring multiple hard hitting weapons in a couple of the scout variants.

Why is the 'use a better weapon' argument even used when considering variants like CDA-3C? To use a better weapon, you have to make space and slow the mech down...and it stops becoming a scout.

It's why you just don't bother with those variants. It would be nice if balance were better, but it's not.

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 07 March 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[coolnames]

aniviron, on 07 March 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

I answer OP's video with the video of OP in another thread: http://mwomercs.com/...f-machine-guns/

Your video was the reason I made this one actually

I wanted to show that your video is great for demonstrating that MGs suck for striping armor and actually killing a mech's internals, but that it did not highlight the value of the criticals it causes to the components.

Yes yes yes, other weapons destroy and do damage too...but on certain loadouts for scouts, it is a great choice.

Prosperity Park, on 07 March 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I messed around in the Training area a little, and just found that 3MG will crit-out the weapons from armorless parts as quickly as twin LL beams will while the beam is active. So, in theory, MG's might be good for something.

3MG didn't do squat for killing engines, though... just weapons and stuff.

<3 and a highfive to you bro

[Vassago Rain]

GameGenie, on 07 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

MG builds work. Just cause you want 4xAc/2 @ no weight doesn't mean MGs are bad. Nothing is as good at destroying weapons on a de-armored target than MGs- If you don't understand why that's good, then I understand why you won't use them.

I have a much better candidate for that.
It's called 'SRM6.'

[ICEFANG13]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Because you can't bring multiple hard hitting weapons in a couple of the scout variants.

Why is the 'use a better weapon' argument even used when considering variants like CDA-3C? To use a better weapon, you have to make space and slow the mech down...and it stops becoming a scout.

It is not a sacrifice to bring 1 A/C-2 over 4 MGs on a Cicada, 1 A/C-2 generates no heat alone (that matters), it has a range of 720-2160, a DPS of 4, and much higher burst damage (2 to .04).

True, bringing 1 PPC kinda makes it harder to bring 1 A/C-2, but the advantages of 4 MGs to 1 A/C-2 alone make them nearly worthless, DPS 4 vs DPS .4, 8 tons 3 slots vs 4 tons 6 slots (two tons of ammo each). 4 tons is not easy on a light mech, but the advantages are clearly better for 1 A/C-2.

[FrostCollar]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Because you can't bring multiple hard hitting weapons in a couple of the scout variants.

Why is the 'use a better weapon' argument even used when considering variants like CDA-3C? To use a better weapon, you have to make space and slow the mech down...and it stops becoming a scout.

The sad fact of the matter is that the CDA-3C isn't very good and it shouldn't be considered when there are better Cicadas out there.

I don't understand the "scout" argument either. The only time an MG has a chance to do anything is if the armor on a mech's section is gone, yet a scout often ranges beyond the support of better armed mechs. If you have no chance of fighting on your own, and if the one thing you can do is something that can be accomplished by destroying a section, then I don't see the point.

[Zeroskills]

As far as I can tell, the only good use of a MG is to **** people off and get them to chase you.

[coolnames]

ICEFANG13, on 07 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

It is not a sacrifice to bring 1 A/C-2 over 4 MGs on a Cicada,

That is great, if you can keep your engine fast and armor up....and you can circle your targets while keeping you AC2 shots on target.

[Inappropriate1191]

Vassago Rain, on 07 March 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

I have a much better candidate for that.
It's called 'SRM6.'

Yeah, no sh.it. SRM6, Hell, even LBX is far better to take. LBX will critseek, and still manage to do real damage to things.

[FrostCollar]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

That is great, if you can keep your engine fast and armor up....and you can circle your targets while keeping you AC2 shots on target.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. MG rounds have a travel time too and have an extremely short range to boot.

[coolnames]

FrostCollar, on 07 March 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

The sad fact of the matter is that the CDA-3C isn't very good and it shouldn't be considered when there are better Cicadas out there.

Ok, what about the Spider 5k? There are only 3 variants, and that one has similar hardpoints to the 3C. Need to play that one to level up the mech trees...

I am anticipating "spiders are bad" ....

[FrostCollar]

coolnames, on 07 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Ok, what about the Spider 5k? There are only 3 variants, and that one has similar hardpoints to the 3C. Need to play that one to level up the mech trees...

I am anticipating "spiders are bad" ....

You got it! The Spider is the only mech I've bought that I just gave up on trying to like and sold it instead. It doesn't have much in the way of hardpoints and it can't punch like I've heard it could in TT. It can jump quite well, but that really wasn't enough to sway me. If I wanted to jump with MGs I'd do it in my poor RVN-4X.