229 replies to this topic

[xhrit]

Zyllos, on 08 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

You do know that Machine Guns deal WAY more than they do on TT in this game?

2 damage / 10s per turn = 0.2 DPS
MWO Machine Gun = 0.04 damage * 10 RoF = 0.4 DPS

They basically deal 2x the amount of damage than TT. The issue is that right now, machine guns spread that damage all over the mech because they act like lasers (ray traces).

MWO uses Solaris 7 rules; every other weapon in the game shoots at 3x TT.

Think about it : PPC has a 3 second recycle time in MWO, with a 0.33 second impulse. PPC does 10 damage 3 times every 10 seconds. PPC in MWO shoots 3 times as fast as TT.

In this context, machineguns are doing less then they should compared to every other weapon in the game.

Edited by xhrit, 20 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[UberFubarius]

xhrit, on 20 March 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

MWO uses Solaris 7 rules; every other weapon in the game shoots at 3x TT.

Think about it : PPC has a 3 second recycle time in MWO, with a 0.33 second impulse. PPC does 10 damage 3 times every 10 seconds. PPC in MWO shoots 3 times as fast as TT.

In this context, machineguns are doing less then they should compared to every other weapon in the game.

So boost machine gun damage to 0.6 DPS?
Sounds very reasonable.

[MustrumRidcully]

UberFubarius, on 21 March 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

So boost machine gun damage to 0.6 DPS?
Sounds very reasonable.

Well, DPS in TT of a Small Laser: 0.3; DPS in MW:O of a Small Laser: 1
DPS in TT of an AC/2: 0.2. DPS in MW:O of a an AC/2: 4
DPS in TT of an ML: 0.5. DPS in MW:O of an ML: 1.25

The factor seems not to be an exact science. It might be based on a modified dart board.

[Team Leader]

xhrit, on 20 March 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

MWO uses Solaris 7 rules; every other weapon in the game shoots at 3x TT.

Think about it : PPC has a 3 second recycle time in MWO, with a 0.33 second impulse. PPC does 10 damage 3 times every 10 seconds. PPC in MWO shoots 3 times as fast as TT.

In this context, machineguns are doing less then they should compared to every other weapon in the game.

This is a very valid point and I'm glad you brought it up. I plan on updating the OP to reflect some new opinions and very valid criticisms that have been brought up

[Volume]

Voted yes the last time this thing came up.

[Deathlike]

There might be that day where MGs get overbuffed and we'll remember this thread...

All because PGI probably misplaced the decimal on the MG buff.

[Team Leader]

Deathlike, on 23 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

There might be that day where MGs get overbuffed and we'll remember this thread...

All because PGI probably misplaced the decimal on the MG buff.

Nobody would notice because nobody would be using them except the poor spider 5k pilots lol

[Skyfaller]

Team Leader, on 07 March 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

That is all. Remove crit buff, don't remove it, reduce ammo per ton, don't reduce ammo per ton, I don't care. I just want the machine gun to do damage.

I voted NO for one reason: The MG is not supposed to be a damage weapon.

I would support however :

1- Increase in the MG rate of fire to 4x current rate along with increase in ammo by same said 4x. This is a simple way to increase the effectiveness of the MG without increasing the damage directly.

-or-

2- Add a 0.05% chance per bullet to be armor-piercing and hit internals. This can come in the form of a special MG-only module 'Armor Piercing Bullets' (not cannon rounds which would mean AC's). This would enable the MG's to be a crit-seeking, internals-damaging weapon when armor on target is full (very low chance) or gone (extremely high chance of crit).

-or-

3- Increase the number of ballistic slots on medium and light mechs to minimum of 8, max of 12. Lower MG weight to 0.25 and every ammo slot weight half a ton. These lighter mechs are limited by weight in ballistics they can carry so they wont be loading 8~12 AC20s... they would only be able to load what they load now or 8 to 12 MG's if they so wish.

[Team Leader]

Skyfaller, on 23 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

I voted NO for one reason: The MG is not supposed to be a damage weapon.

I would support however :

1- Increase in the MG rate of fire to 4x current rate along with increase in ammo by same said 4x. This is a simple way to increase the effectiveness of the MG without increasing the damage directly.

-or-

2- Add a 0.05% chance per bullet to be armor-piercing and hit internals. This can come in the form of a special MG-only module 'Armor Piercing Bullets' (not cannon rounds which would mean AC's). This would enable the MG's to be a crit-seeking, internals-damaging weapon when armor on target is full (very low chance) or gone (extremely high chance of crit).

-or-

3- Increase the number of ballistic slots on medium and light mechs to minimum of 8, max of 12. Lower MG weight to 0.25 and every ammo slot weight half a ton. These lighter mechs are limited by weight in ballistics they can carry so they wont be loading 8~12 AC20s... they would only be able to load what they load now or 8 to 12 MG's if they so wish.

Thats a terrible way to balance it, Im sorry. MGs ARE a damage dealing weapon, just not in this game. Why would they mess with all that crap instead of changing just 2 digits in the game files? Is it really so hard to just boost the damage to .16 per bullet, and everything would be fine!

[Gaan Cathal]

Deathlike, on 23 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

There might be that day where MGs get overbuffed and we'll remember this thread...

All because PGI probably misplaced the decimal on the MG buff.

They did get overbuffed. By misplacing a decimal point on the "buff", actually.

When they put the crit-seeking "buff" into place, they intended to give the MG a critrate of 8%, but actually gave it a critrate of 80%.

This was stealth-fixed in the most recent patch, although given the amount of people that heavily tested MGs at the "broken" 80% critrate and still produced numbers showing they weren't close to worth the tonnage..... Well, you can see why it was a stealth fix. Wouldn't like to advertise that my 'crit seeking' mechanic that I was vaunting as a unique twist for several weapons is so non-functional that accidentally increasing the rate tenfold has no discernible effect in the field.

[Deathlike]

Gaan Cathal, on 23 March 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

They did get overbuffed. By misplacing a decimal point on the "buff", actually.

When they put the crit-seeking "buff" into place, they intended to give the MG a critrate of 8%, but actually gave it a critrate of 80%.

This was stealth-fixed in the most recent patch, although given the amount of people that heavily tested MGs at the "broken" 80% critrate and still produced numbers showing they weren't close to worth the tonnage..... Well, you can see why it was a stealth fix. Wouldn't like to advertise that my 'crit seeking' mechanic that I was vaunting as a unique twist for several weapons is so non-functional that accidentally increasing the rate tenfold has no discernible effect in the field.

That's not the "buff" I was looking for.

I've conceded at losing weapons when the armor is exposed vs the MG, but that's always the case when the armor is exposed in the first place.

[Abledime]

would love to see MG as a credible weapon, it should have a longer range 2-400 m but a massive area of effect, so it hits any where on meck. BUT it should be a close in armor shredder. it should also have its own overheat if fired too long such as the UAC5 jam risk with a LONG cooldown. it should chew through ammo too i would give it a 6600 round per minuet fire rate so 1 tonne of ammo lasts about 10 seconds of continuous fire. so It would not be too OP as most people will just waste ammo firing blindly.

[Gremlich Johns]

machine-guns are, in canon, anti-infantry and anti-light materiel (this means trucks and jeeps) weapons. Their damage is sufficient for that purpose so leave it alone and drop your campaign to boost damage. If you really have to have the dakka dakka and the damage to go with it, go play something else. The poster above me here wants exactly what I have previously said such advocates want, they want the damage of small lasers without the heat.

Say it with me -- "Machine-guns are anti-infantry weapons"

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 24 March 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Deathlike]

Tell this to the Spider-5K pilots. They would like a more usable mech.

[Team Leader]

Gremlich Johns, on 24 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

machine-guns are, in canon, anti-infantry and anti-light materiel (this means trucks and jeeps) weapons. Their damage is sufficient for that purpose so leave it alone and drop your campaign to boost damage. If you really have to have the dakka dakka and the damage to go with it, go play something else. The poster above me here wants exactly what I have previously said such advocates want, they want the damage of small lasers without the heat.

Say it with me -- "Machine-guns are anti-infantry weapons"

You're wrong. Why does everyone think this? They do as much damage to mechs as AC2s! THERE ARE NO INFANTRY OR VEHICLES IN THIS GAME, JUST. MECHS.

[Skyfaller]

Deathlike, on 24 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Tell this to the Spider-5K pilots. They would like a more usable mech.

I am a Spider-5K fan and I REALLY like my machine guns.

I can literally pop weapons off an enemy mech and 'debuff it' significantly for my team. The problem is that the mg doesnt do much against armor...and it shouldnt...but therein lies the problem and why I say to either increase the number of machine guns or add an armor piercing low % module.

As a spider 5k I can pepper a target with MGs and do nothing to it. For a whole minute. However once my friends get its armor to red my MGs obliterate internal weapons and leave them defenseless....but if I was a jenner i couldve just killed them in one shot of six small laser's worth of damage.

So...

add the armor piercing round module. even if one of 100 bullets penetrates it still means my little mech has to aim for a specific component and pump a lot of bullets into it for a while to wreck its internals. The target might get ammo explosion or lose weapons..but not lose armor. A VERY fair and balanced approach to both the spider and its target.

...or simple bump up the number of mg's and lower their weight. instead of increasing the damage just let us shoot more of them, thus mandating more ammo load but at the same time also signficantly increasing the damage and crit dmg ability ( mo' bullets flyin'!)

[Pinselborste]

MG needs a damage boost, and it has to be a straight damage boost and not increasing firerate. increased firerate would tax the server more and will screw up hit detection.

it has half the damage per ammo ton of the other ballistics, so increase its damage by 150% (1dps) and reduce ammo per ton to 1500 and its on at same damage/ammo ton levels as other balistics.

Edited by Pinselborste, 24 March 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Yiazmat]

FFS, yes, buff the Light Cursed damage of this weapon. What is PGI waiting for? 1, 1.5, or 2.0 DPS, 1000 rounds per ton. And rename it to Gatling Gun. This isn't your grandfather's MG42, it's an anti tank weapon:
A-10 Thunderbolt's 30mm Avenger Canon next to a VW Bug.

And this beast (unloaded) only weighs 619.5 lb (281 kg)!! IT'S NOT EVEN HALF A TON! Also it fires 4200 rounds per minute, which is 70 rounds a second. But for the sake of the game, 10 rounds per second is fine ( if still LOLzy slow by comparison ).

Edited by Yiazmat, 25 March 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[Team Leader]

I have finally gotten around to updating the OP. please feel free to share your new feedback in this thread and/or adjust your votes!

[Bobzilla]

If a MG did 1 dps, 2 of them would do more dps than a LRM10, take 1/2 the slots, be 1/5th the weight and you wouldn't have to worry about heat (equal to 11 SHS) and you would get more ammo.

What are you people thinking? It's like asking for any other weapon to have over double its dps because it doesn't do enough for its weight/slots/heat.