229 replies to this topic

[Team Leader]

That is all. Remove crit buff, don't remove it, reduce ammo per ton, don't reduce ammo per ton, I don't care. I just want the machine gun to do damage.

Update March 25, 2013
At this point in time, I believe the best option would be the following:
-Reduce ammo per ton to 1000 rounds, from 2000
-Buff each bullet's damage to 0.15, up from 0.04
-Leave the fire rate, heat, everything else the same

The above would give the MG a DPS of 1.5, a good amount, while also giving it the damage potential per ton of 150, exactly in line with the other ACs. It would also only take 100 seconds to dump 1 ton of ammo, a great improvement over 200 seconds for only 80 points of damage. Leaving the crit buff in wouldn't make much of a difference wither way, as the increased damage from MGs would actually be able to destroy components and internals at a satisfactory rate. Thanks for following my thread everyone!

Update April 13, 2013
Some people seem to have reading comprehension problems. Allow me to bring you a quote from Sarna:

Sarna said:

The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs. It should be noted that despite their enhanced effectiveness against infantry, BattleMech machine guns are perfectly capable of stripping the armor off any BattleMech.

Edited by Team Leader, 13 May 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

More DPS should be the poll, I'm actually in favor of making the MG heavier and slower and have 2DPS. If you compare it to an A/C-2, it would be pretty well balanced. At DPS 1, only 4X users could get a benefit.

(I want all mechs to be able to run a small effective ballistic, not just ones that can carry four of them).

But still I agree, at least 1 is needed, even with the crit buff perhaps.

[FupDup]

I'm not quite sure where the exact "sweet spot" with MGs would be (maybe 1, maybe higher, maybe lower, hell if I know). However, this is how I feel (and many probably agree with this):

1. Big damage boost
2. Remove the gimicky crit-seeking effect to compensate (mainly so nobody tries to call them OP, lol)
3. Also reduce ammo per ton (the logic is that each bullet would be made larger, thus more powerful but you get fewer per ton)

Edited by FupDup, 07 March 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

ICEFANG13, on 07 March 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

More DPS should be the poll, I'm actually in favor of making the MG heavier and slower and have 2DPS.

Remember, Heavy MGs may be coming once the clans arrive. Although technically the Heavy MG isn't introduced by the clans until 3059 (3068 IS), I'm not sure how faithfully PGI is going to adhere to the timeline. They may be trying to test the waters to save room for Heavy MGs later on.

That said, I've been a staunch advocate for MGs to be regarded as merely a supplemental weapon system for harassing and distracting, but I'd totally be behind a damage buff (I mean, more damage is ALWAYS better)...even though I'm totally cool if they stay the way they are (as a harassing "trolling" weapon like the flamer).

[Mahws]

ICEFANG13, on 07 March 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

More DPS should be the poll, I'm actually in favor of making the MG heavier and slower and have 2DPS. If you compare it to an A/C-2, it would be pretty well balanced. At DPS 1, only 4X users could get a benefit.

At DPS 1 they'd still be of benefit to mechs taking two or three. 2/3DPS may not be much when limited to under 90m, but there's no heat generated, so it'd be a nice fallback weapon on high heat builds or just builds with free tonnes and slots, but not enough for an AC weapon. Two machine guns would be roughly equal to a MPL in damage and weight, trading range, ammo and on target time for heat.

2DPS would be a bit silly, a spider 5K would have the equivalent of almost four large lasers of DPS in machine guns. Granted that's ammo dependent and 90m range, but still a little over the top.

[Monky]

1 DPS is about nominal for MG's given any realistic calculation I've seen. 2.4x fire rate (aka dps) on every other weapon, but the MG is stuck at 0.04 a bullet and 10 bullets a second, giving it standard 0.2 dps, or 2 damage every 10 seconds, like table top.

0.04 x 2.4 = 0.1 damage per bullet, 10 bullets a second = 1 DPS.

[ICEFANG13]

Bhael Fire, on 07 March 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Remember, Heavy MGs may be coming once the clans arrive. Although technically the Heavy MG isn't introduced by the clans until 3059 (3068 IS), I'm not sure how faithfully PGI is going to adhere to the timeline. They may be trying to test the waters to save room for Heavy MGs later on.

That said, I've been a staunch advocate for MGs to be regarded as merely a supplemental weapon system for harassing and distracting, but I'd totally be behind a damage buff (I mean, more damage is ALWAYS better)...even though I'm totally cool if they stay the way they are (as a harassing "trolling" weapon like the flamer).

I don't know much about MW history, I didn't even know about HMGs.

Mahws, on 07 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

At DPS 1 they'd still be of benefit to mechs taking two or three. 2/3DPS may not be much when limited to under 90m, but there's no heat generated, so it'd be a nice fallback weapon on high heat builds or just builds with free tonnes and slots, but not enough for an AC weapon. Two machine guns would be roughly equal to a MPL in damage and weight, trading range, ammo and on target time for heat.

2DPS would be a bit silly, a spider 5K would have the equivalent of almost four large lasers of DPS in machine guns. Granted that's ammo dependent and 90m range, but still a little over the top.

Yeah but I also want weight increases too, as well as less ammo per ton etc. Better alone than boated.

[HRR Insanity]

At least 1 DPS. Probably should be 1.5-2 DPS to make it competitive.

[Team Leader]

So, remove the crit buff and up the DPS?

[Deathlike]

I'd rather apply the same logic that is used for crits, to be used for its regular damage. It would be variable due to the nature of the system implemented for crits, but that would increase the overall DPS w/o having to tweak much outside of that.

[focuspark]

I'd be happy with keeping the 0.4 DPS vs armor so long as it had something approaching AC/2 levels vs internals. Perhaps 3.0 DPS vs internals; but none of this crit stuff

[Wintersdark]

Yup. I don't care what else is done, but the MG really needs to do damage. It doesn't need to be a lot, though I'd like to see it in the Small Laser ballpark, but given that one MG carries a minimum pricetag of 2 slots and 1.5 tons, it's just terrible now even with the crit buff.

Lights packing 4 need to be a threat if ignored. They've already closed to within 90 meters, they're already packing a minimum of 3 tons of armament and ammo that serves as a bomb if they're crit themselves, as things stand now if you have armor they're just a joke.

Machine guns sound awesome, look cool, and are tons of fun. But they need to actually *do* something, or the ballistics lights really need to be redesigned.

Please fix the weapon, though.

[General Taskeen]

FupDup, on 07 March 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

1. Big damage boost
2. Remove the gimicky crit-seeking effect to compensate (mainly so nobody tries to call them OP, lol)
3. Also reduce ammo per ton (the logic is that each bullet would be made larger, thus more powerful but you get fewer per ton)

And

4. Give it a cool down

5. The Universe will be whole again

[Royalewithcheese]

My favorite machinegun fix suggestion is to make them fire in bursts and behave exactly like SLasers.

[MagnumLovin]

MG's have a damage rate of 2 per turn, or cycle, on the TT. Don't sell it short, now! 0.04 is horribly underrated. I was so shocked testing it on the Testing Grounds that I removed them all from my mechs and will not use them till repaired.

Burst fire with a duration time of a SLaser would work, but no cycle time, or cool down in my opinion. It really needs to be fixed.

[Jetfire]

I like the crit seeker idea, but it could use a little more tuning.

[Zyllos]

MagnumLovin, on 08 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

MG's have a damage rate of 2 per turn, or cycle, on the TT. Don't sell it short, now! 0.04 is horribly underrated. I was so shocked testing it on the Testing Grounds that I removed them all from my mechs and will not use them till repaired.

Burst fire with a duration time of a SLaser would work, but no cycle time, or cool down in my opinion. It really needs to be fixed.

You do know that Machine Guns deal WAY more than they do on TT in this game?

2 damage / 10s per turn = 0.2 DPS
MWO Machine Gun = 0.04 damage * 10 RoF = 0.4 DPS

They basically deal 2x the amount of damage than TT. The issue is that right now, machine guns spread that damage all over the mech because they act like lasers (ray traces). So unless you can keep that machine gun on a single location, they will not deal a whole lot.

And this is partly because weapon convergence is MUCH too accurate in this game. Why wield a machine gun when you can wield 2 small lasers that hit the exact same location, dealing much more DPS? But that is a different issue for another thread.

Edited by Zyllos, 08 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Phaesphoros]

Flamers, MG (and SPL) are currently the only non-lethal weapons in the game. What should the Spider police use when MGs did actually kill mechs?

IMHO, MG is a support weapon (and the 5K a support mech). It already disarms enemies really fast once the armor is stripped. You just have be patient for other mechs (or your ML/MPL) to melt the armor.

Edit: Re-Voted FOR the buff, as most of the time CT is stripped, where crits are useless atm. Even if engine critted, it would be nice if the MG had a slightly higher DPS.

(I'd rather buff the crit feature, see Suggestions forum.)

Edited by Phaesphoros, 21 April 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Oppresor]

I just want the MG Array to do some meaningful amount of damage (preferably to the light units that harass my Atlas) I don't mind if it's slightly slower or if it accumulates low levels of heat; all of these are acceptable if it makes holes in the enemy unit.

[Team Leader]

Machine guns,1 DPS, giving lights and the cicada a viable weapon comparable to the small laser for tonnage and ammo consumption at the cost of heat. It's only fair, make this happen please