229 replies to this topic

[Team Leader]

Darren Tyler, on 12 May 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

My idea is to increase fire rate, increase damage against armor to .05 and to no armor .1 and to increase the crit chance.
This gives MG's a role and use.

Sure why not. Literally anything is better than what we have now.

Straften, on 02 May 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...18#entry2315318

Lol double damage isn't even enough. They are so disillusioned. It's like they've never even used machine guns.

[Koniving]

Welp. With the 21st patch, the 6 MG build will be a zero heat, 4.8 damage per second weapon with a 4.8 minimum, 14.4 maximum crit damage per second setup (engines have 15 health).

Let's say MGs do 2 damage per second, per MG.

That's 12 damage per second in a 6 MG rig for 3 tons + ammo, not to mention it's non-stop.

....Why would you want this? It'd just be an ultra light AC/2, defeating the purpose of AC/2s other than having some range.

Personally I'd like to use them to shoot down missiles.

Edited by Koniving, 12 May 2013 - 06:42 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

I agree that 6 may work, but then again, there is only 1 mech that can do that, and although PGI changed range... which I don't really agree or understand, it still pretty close range, and even without heat, it can only go 83 KPH.

Unfortunately, like many weapons, they are just amazing when carrying a ton of them, and only a few weapons are good when not packed to the rim with.

However, we still have that spread, I would agree that 6 may work, at this range and DPS, if they did not spread. The effective range is pretty low still. Maybe the Spider can do it.

[Deathlike]

Darren Tyler, on 12 May 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

My idea is to increase fire rate, increase damage against armor to .05 and to no armor .1 and to increase the crit chance.
This gives MG's a role and use.

The ROF is already 10 bullets/sec, and unfortunately the game is not actually producing that many bullets at the current rate (it's less than 10), so technically it's not "working as intended" on just the fundamentals.

Koniving, on 12 May 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Welp. With the 21st patch, the 6 MG build will be a zero heat, 4.8 damage per second weapon with a 4.8 minimum, 14.4 maximum crit damage per second setup (engines have 15 health).

Let's say MGs do 2 damage per second, per MG.

That's 12 damage per second in a 6 MG rig for 3 tons + ammo, not to mention it's non-stop.

....Why would you want this? It'd just be an ultra light AC/2, defeating the purpose of AC/2s other than having some range.

Personally I'd like to use them to shoot down missiles.

For hyperbole, using the 6 MG Jagermech as an example is not even the usual usage (plus the Jagermech is fairly easy to put down usually). What is more concerning is the Spider-5K, where the current MG system does squat for players that use them. The bulk of the real damage comes from the sole laser weapon that is fired from the Spider's CT, so consequently it will struggle to keep up with even the Spider-5V in terms of overall DPS.

For a classic Spider-5K (not the crazy Koniving build, but we're talking more of the common builds), you have either a long range weapon (ER Large) or a short range weapon (Large Pulse or Med Laser/Pulse) with MGs... with the ER Large version... unless you decide to brawl, the MGs on such a system is less than practical. On the other hand, MGs requires that stream of bullets to hit its target at close range... which in the future meta will have more BAP+Streak combos that will very likely decimate the 5K faster than an ammo explosion.

Pretty much, MGs do need the buff, but there's a lot of other things that would crush a semi-dependent multi-MG user in the current and future meta.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 May 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[Koniving]

There's a reason I use the AC/20 in my lights, and MGs in my heavies and assaults. For the Spider I like the AC/5s or the Gauss Rifle.

[nemesis271989]

Team Leader, on 07 March 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

That is all. Remove crit buff, don't remove it, reduce ammo per ton, don't reduce ammo per ton, I don't care. I just want the machine gun to do damage.

Update March 25, 2013
At this point in time, I believe the best option would be the following:
-Reduce ammo per ton to 1000 rounds, from 2000
-Buff each bullet's damage to 0.15, up from 0.04
-Leave the fire rate, heat, everything else the same

The above would give the MG a DPS of 1.5, a good amount, while also giving it the damage potential per ton of 150, exactly in line with the other ACs. It would also only take 100 seconds to dump 1 ton of ammo, a great improvement over 200 seconds for only 80 points of damage. Leaving the crit buff in wouldn't make much of a difference wither way, as the increased damage from MGs would actually be able to destroy components and internals at a satisfactory rate. Thanks for following my thread everyone!

Update April 13, 2013
Some people seem to have reading comprehension problems. Allow me to bring you a quote from Sarna:

Do you Understand what you're asking for?
Lrm's are doing 0.7 dmg per missile.
And this is a machine guns not a explosive rounds how do you expect in real world a machine gun penetrate TANK's armor?

[ICEFANG13]

Koniving, on 12 May 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

There's a reason I use the AC/20 in my lights, and MGs in my heavies and assaults. For the Spider I like the AC/5s or the Gauss Rifle.

Gauss? You are crazy.

Like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...501427cd6c359f0

Crazy

[Koniving]

XL 170. Bit more armor, but the limp arm and shoulder has zero armor.

Is a fun setup, though.

[MustrumRidcully]

SirLANsalot, on 24 April 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

MG, anti Infantry.

Infantry, something we do not have yet, and PGI has adjusted the MG so it can slightly be used against mechs. However infantry are coming to the game, so till then we have an incomplete game but we have weapons for what it not here yet.

Infantry is coming to the game? Where did you ever see this stated?

[Aurrous]

Koniving, on 12 May 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Welp. With the 21st patch, the 6 MG build will be a zero heat, 4.8 damage per second weapon with a 4.8 minimum, 14.4 maximum crit damage per second setup (engines have 15 health).

Let's say MGs do 2 damage per second, per MG.

That's 12 damage per second in a 6 MG rig for 3 tons + ammo, not to mention it's non-stop.

....Why would you want this? It'd just be an ultra light AC/2, defeating the purpose of AC/2s other than having some range.

Personally I'd like to use them to shoot down missiles.

With 6 MG on a jagger mech, and double the damage, you would do .517 damage as opposed to the .2586 it does now..
the average damage from a poll was .0431 which was what the Devs said it was supposed to be..

And that is still with the "magic bullet" scenario.. where they magically know what is armor and what is the soft insides of a mech..

So maybe that will turn the tides of war.. but i would still hide behind a close rock and wait for a core before blazing your MG tickle fest on them.. unless you have something else to strip the armor off with.. I still would say just use the MG to find the head, and push the alpha strike, if your going to use them.

Its sad when it takes 6 MG to do .5 points of damage, and "everyone" still says it works.. Mean while for the slots you could go AC and do some damage..

The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs.

if you guys are going to use the MG = Anti infantry quote, use the whole quote where it says they are still effective at damaging BattleMechs.. As these MG do are not effective at Damaging battle mechs..

Maybe with the Clan Heavy MG which does 3x the damage of the light we might get 1.5 damage

Edited by Aurrous, 13 May 2013 - 05:11 AM.

[Team Leader]

nemesis271989, on 12 May 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Do you Understand what you're asking for?
Lrm's are doing 0.7 dmg per missile.
And this is a machine guns not a explosive rounds how do you expect in real world a machine gun penetrate TANK's armor?

I know exactly what Im asking for. These are not regualr "machine guns" as you think, but anti-armor mech destroying weapons (by the way, mechs do not use tank armor. Battlemech armor is ablative, which means pieces come off when they absorb energy, as opposed to deflecting the shot like a tanks armor). If you think that then you need to go read some source material.

[Miken]

Only one solution for boost MG now would be effective. Increase range to ~2400m

[Aurrous]

Miken, on 13 May 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Only one solution for boost MG now would be effective. Increase range to ~2400m

I think the potential energy needed to produce enough kinetic energy to make them go that far, would make them more lethal at 120 meters.. At that point you might as well call them mini gauss..

[Koniving]

Aurrous, on 13 May 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

With 6 MG on a jagger mech, and double the damage, you would do .517 damage as opposed to the .2586 it does now..
the average damage from a poll was .0431 which was what the Devs said it was supposed to be..

And that is still with the "magic bullet" scenario.. where they magically know what is armor and what is the soft insides of a mech..

So maybe that will turn the tides of war.. but i would still hide behind a close rock and wait for a core before blazing your MG tickle fest on them.. unless you have something else to strip the armor off with.. I still would say just use the MG to find the head, and push the alpha strike, if your going to use them.

Its sad when it takes 6 MG to do .5 points of damage, and "everyone" still says it works.. Mean while for the slots you could go AC and do some damage..

The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs.

if you guys are going to use the MG = Anti infantry quote, use the whole quote where it says they are still effective at damaging BattleMechs.. As these MG do are not effective at Damaging battle mechs..

Maybe with the Clan Heavy MG which does 3x the damage of the light we might get 1.5 damage

Where are you getting these damage ratings? It currently does 0.04 damage per bullet for 10 bullets and 0.4 damage per second. Leading to 2.4 damage per second on a 6 MG rig. Updated it becomes 0.08 damage per bullet, for .8 damage per second, leading up to 4.8 damage per second in a 6 MG rig. So long as you can focus the damage (which isn't that hard when there's no heat). So where are you getting those rather odd fractions?

Edited by Koniving, 13 May 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Well you can't really focus the damage, unless you are kissing them. That spread will reduce it by a 3rd-5th-7th power depending on how far away you are.

[Miken]

Aurrous, on 13 May 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I think the potential energy needed to produce enough kinetic energy to make them go that far, would make them more lethal at 120 meters.. At that point you might as well call them mini gauss..

Hmm... So LBX now is micro gauss?

[Straften]

Team Leader, on 12 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Lol double damage isn't even enough. They are so disillusioned. It's like they've never even used machine guns.

While I agree with you, I just posted that here for people who have not read it yet. It's a good step in the right direction, so I thought I would post the good news. =)

[rgreat]

Well doubling damage will change MG to being just bad from totally useles.

[Red squirrel]

In the name of the squirrels I approve:

And for those with problematic reading comprehention I suggest this thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...reading-the-op/

[Barghest Whelp]

You really should have one more option in your poll: 1.2 dps is more like it

In fact, it could probably be even higher considering the spread and stream mechnic. But yeah, I finally tried them today, and eh, omg. What a waste of tons. I swapped two heatsinks off my 3D for 2 mg's and a ton of ammo. Two heatsinks are much better as they allow the 4 LPL's to fire more often.

That's my definition of a terrible weapon.

Edit: not quite as terribl as my ability to read thread titles apparently. But yeah, about 1.6 to 2.0 should make 'em about right.

Edited by Barghest Whelp, 01 June 2013 - 11:00 AM.