62 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Dr Warp Effect, on 08 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Mercules: I know this is a beta. But it is such an odd beta. They are selling stuff as fast as they can and developing even more to sell while not making changes that early and sustained feedback indicated should be made long ago. They have made changes that swung useful builds to useless and vice versa without rhyme or reason. They hold to some BT concepts that are not workable in an MMO and then abandon BT concepts that would make the game better. The entire project reeks of the inefficient "minimum viable product" approach they committed to from the beginning. But, just to show you I know its a beta, consider the fact that my original post gives a list of 7 improvements they should make. At some point in a feedback cycle, saying "its just a beta" no longer cuts it as an excuse.

You also asked for an explanation as to why some basic things are not implemented. The most logical is that the developers are considering this a Beta, because they are calling it that. So things like Text color, customization for HUDs, really are things you work on later. The money thing I assume is not PGI but IGP. My experience on the forums and playing the game since Closed Beta tells me PGI has one vision and IGP only sees red and black numbers.

Edited by Mercules, 08 March 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Deathlike, on 08 March 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Logical (the word).

Read his user name.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Dishevel, on 08 March 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

That is true for everything but the chat.
The way they do chat in this game is nothing short of stupid.

Press "tab" and see who's on what team... that solves issue 1.

for those complaining about Issue 6... the "heat" monitor has always been on it's own, there's no reason to change what works.

[IceSerpent]

Dr Warp Effect, on 08 March 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

IceSerpent: You can still get 360 coverage even with fixed radar by using multiple radar.

You can, but it's tricky to do technically (which is why practically all RL radars use rotating dish).

Quote

EZmode? You are kidding right? You really want the game to achieve difficulty by having illogical game systems instead of difficulty based on logical game dynamics?

No, not kidding - you want the game to "fix" player's lack of battlefield awareness, and that's ezmode.

[StalaggtIKE]

Dr Warp Effect, on 08 March 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Playing this game for 3 matches (yes ok I have played a great many matches, but only 3 would get all the following) makes clear the following even to rank amateurs:

1. Color code chat so that you know what team someone is on, especially kill spam
2. No futuristic war machine would be vulnerable because a light mech ran up under its guns (more depression in weapons systems, guided munitions, weapons in legs, etc.)
3. No targeting system could be defeated by coming up from behind, radar is 360, cameras in back, whatever (heck even a rearview mirror system would prevent that)
4. ECM as effective as in this game now would mean the end of battle by such machines
5. Vision systems such as night vision would have filters so that bright weapons flashes would not blind you
6. The heat monitor in the HUD would NOT be uselessly at the bottom but would be a circle around your reticle that you could constantly monitor without taking eyes off targets, this is not a matter of convenience, it is a matter of life and death.
7. Chat should be T for team and y (yell) for all (yes I know those keys can be reassigned)

I would be interested in responses that show why the game does not have the features listed above.

1. Yes!
2. Speed is life
3. Agreed.
4. Exactly. Non-ECM mechs would never be fielded, if technology of this caliber ever existed.
5. Correct. Hopefully a fix is on the way!
6. Agreed. I know this was the case on MW2, perhaps if suggested, it will be added.
7. These were the first keys I rebinded. I also wish team chat was enabled by default at start of round. I hate those face palm moments, where the new guy announces your team plans to the enemy.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 08 March 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Mercules]

StalaggtIKE, on 08 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

4. Exactly. Non-ECM mechs would never be fielded, if technology of this caliber ever existed.

You realize that ECM in the timeline we are dealing with is experimental, right? Like they JUST figured out how to engineer it again after centuries of civilization's decline and loss of most of their knowledge about Battlemechs and some other technology? The number of mechs that don't have ECM is like 200 to each 1 that does... but customization and simple gameplay leads to the opposite when players are involved.

[Ghogiel]

Dr Warp Effect, on 08 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Left Lucy, true but irrelevant to my post as these changes are far more logical than current systems.

> plays futuristic mech game
>asks for logic

[Glythe]

Jetfire, on 08 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

radar depends on the antenna mounting, fixed antenna, forward only detection. I don't see a big rotating dish on anyone's head.

shotgun microphone array planted behind the mech could easily be set to the wavelength of mech footsteps. Ignoring all other sound you could have footprint noises for rear targeting. Let's get crazy and assume you have lots of them and call it 200 pounds. Now then.... every guy on your team would be implanted with 1 chip that says to every other chip "I am over here". Let's call that zero weight since it's going to weigh less than 1/1000th of the pilot.

Now you have an array that will only look for enemy mech footsteps for 0.1 tons. Problem solved.

[Mercules]

Glythe, on 08 March 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

shotgun microphone array planted behind the mech could easily be set to the wavelength of mech footsteps. Ignoring all other sound you could have footprint noises for rear targeting. Let's get crazy and assume you have lots of them and call it 200 pounds. Now then.... every guy on your team would be implanted with 1 chip that says to every other chip "I am over here". Let's call that zero weight since it's going to weigh less than 1/1000th of the pilot.

Now you have an array that will only look for enemy mech footsteps for 0.1 tons. Problem solved.

TT lore has 360 degree displays. It was changed to promote gameplay. It isn't that the mechs can't be built to do it, they do it and do it better than any of you have ever suggested considering they have Mag sensors that can detect Mechs in water or behind cover, seismic sensors that can pick up moving mechs, and more.

[Novakaine]

Wonder how do mechs back into the repair bay without bump radar.
"Ooops sorry little repair guy did'nt see ya back there."
"Er little repair guy?"
"Hellooooooo?"
"Aw crap i'm outta here!"

[Shifty Eyes]

Dr Warp Effect, on 08 March 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

4. ECM as effective as in this game now would mean the end of battle by such machines

Eh... I don't really follow you here. ECM affects information sharing and disrupts locks, which mainly disrupts lock-on weapons (of which there are only two in the game right now, LRMs and SSRMs). The vast majority of weapons in the game are direct-fire and are nigh unaffected by ECM. As long as AC20s and PPCs are flying around, "such machines" will continue beating the crap out of each other with great efficiency, ECM or not.

[IceSerpent]

Novakaine, on 08 March 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Wonder how do mechs back into the repair bay without bump radar.
"Ooops sorry little repair guy did'nt see ya back there."
"Er little repair guy?"
"Hellooooooo?"
"Aw crap i'm outta here!"

There are two kinds of 'mech repair guys - the quick and the dead.

[Dirkdaring]

ECM was poorly implemented due to the fact there isn't a lock-on in table top rules.

What it should do is when you fire, it disrupts the tracking causing some of the projectiles to scatter and miss.

[edmethods]

Chat thing, albeit so super minor, has bugged me to no end. Yes we know it can be changed. Dev team, admit it was a mistake, put this in a release path and get this done,

[aniviron]

I'm a bit tired of people saying "A thousand years from now, these giant death machines would be way better than this, they're so inefficient/illogical!" Yes, and other illogical things include: battlemechs. There have been studies commissioned on the efficacy of legged tanks and vehicles for both combat and non-combat roles, and they have all found that walking designs are inefficient and inferior to current tech in almost every regard. It's also puzzling that nobody else finds it preposterous that we'll still be using things that remotely resemble guns in a thousand years. Given moore's law is still in effect, and the fact that we were using swords and bows a thousand years ago, do you really think guns will be in vogue a thousand years from now?

Just face the fact that Battletech is a universe built upon a few axioms; among these are that cool is more important than useful, and that technology is great but never works flawlessly. This means that we get mechs instead of tanks and lasers instead of guns because mechs and lasers are cool- but it also means that we get things like nighvision that works, but has serious limitations and autocannons that jam. Keep in mind that the Battletech world is neat, but built on salvage, and is (somehow, improbably) not operating in a post-scarcity economic state despite their ability to travel faster than light.

[Sifright]

Jade Kitsune, on 08 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Welcome to the battletech universe, and Mechwarrior's interperation of it.

There has to be weaknesses and not everything makes sense.

Deal with it or don't play.

God you are a terrible troll.

half of his comments are about the game UI. Don't be such a git.

[danust]

Phased Array Radar. No spinning dish. Kind of the norm nowadays. Just throwing that out there. Real life and games don't always need to be aligned.

[Sifright]

aniviron, on 08 March 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'm a bit tired of people saying "A thousand years from now, these giant death machines would be way better than this, they're so inefficient/illogical!" Yes, and other illogical things include: battlemechs. There have been studies commissioned on the efficacy of legged tanks and vehicles for both combat and non-combat roles, and they have all found that walking designs are inefficient and inferior to current tech in almost every regard. It's also puzzling that nobody else finds it preposterous that we'll still be using things that remotely resemble guns in a thousand years. Given moore's law is still in effect, and the fact that we were using swords and bows a thousand years ago, do you really think guns will be in vogue a thousand years from now?

Just face the fact that Battletech is a universe built upon a few axioms; among these are that cool is more important than useful, and that technology is great but never works flawlessly. This means that we get mechs instead of tanks and lasers instead of guns because mechs and lasers are cool- but it also means that we get things like nighvision that works, but has serious limitations and autocannons that jam. Keep in mind that the Battletech world is neat, but built on salvage, and is (somehow, improbably) not operating in a post-scarcity economic state despite their ability to travel faster than light.

moores law is about to die a fiery death unless you think it's possible to make transistors out sub atomic particles.

[Deathlike]

Lefty Lucy, on 08 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Read his user name.

I would like a warp core breach then.

[Vahnn]

I'm not defending the lack of color-coded kill messages, but I don't completely hate it. In fact, I would prefer NO kill messages, to be quite honest (Have you ever played Red Orchestra with realism mode? It's quite the experience!)
I try to constantly observe teammate positions on the minimap and open the tactical grid as often as possible. When I see a kill, recheck positions. If your teammate isn't there anymore, there's either enemy ECM or he died. If I see 2 enemies on my HUD and 1 teammate, then all 3 of them disappear on a kill message, I know my teammate died. If one of the red targets disappears, I know he got a kill and I should move to assist him.

I like the uncertainty inherent in the current system. And team-colored general chat? Who cares? Team chat is blue, that's what matters.