77 replies to this topic

[Vermaxx]

Why are the two of you arguing over a difference in a pointless opinion.
PGI gets money from us.
PGI has to pay IGP regularly for the original investment startup funding.
IGP is using some of their recent proceeds to prop up other games.

These are all facts. Whether or not we can add in:

PGI took MWO proceeds and gave it to Mechwarrior Tactics

is an opinion and cannot be directly proven or disproven. You two don't agree, fine. It doesn't matter anyway. No one is forcing anyone to spend more regardless of the reason for refusal.

[Hammerfinn]

Honestly, more than I probably should have. But it's just SO MUCH FUN. So it's not a bad thing... except trying to hide the credit card receipts from my wife!

[Fiachdubh]

Some big spenders there, only spent some of my founders MC for the first time today, 300 for a mech bay. Other than a maybe a couple more bays will be saving the rest until CW is released and Clans are here. Just so have a better idea of what I want to spend it on as will not have much disposable income for the next while (damn you kickstarter!) to buy a lot more.

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'd say its the business of any founder if the funds are being used in an unethical fashion that goes against the stated intention of the founders program.

If they were being used as such it would be our concern. Founders Program was to help develop MWO. Hey look... MWO! Mechwarrior Tactics is done by a different development team that doesn't get ANY of PGI's money they made off of the Founder's program except maybe filtered indirectly through IGP taking it's cut of PGI's profits from being the publishing company and then investing in another project.

[PropagandaWar]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

You're really, really, really bad at not sounding like you're making everything you say up on the spot. Try not contradicting yourself in literally every other post. You have directly contradicted yourself twice in a row.

That is unless you actually DO have secret information about the cash flow between these companies. Do you? If not you should probably stop posting.

Your right. At this time my thoughts are incomplete and not translating well to text at this time. However I agree with the post above. This is pointless and I need to move on.

[Shumabot]

Vermaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Why are the two of you arguing over a difference in a pointless opinion.
PGI gets money from us.
PGI has to pay IGP regularly for the original investment startup funding.
IGP is using some of their recent proceeds to prop up other games.

These are all facts. Whether or not we can add in:

PGI took MWO proceeds and gave it to Mechwarrior Tactics

That's not actually how studio/publisher relationships generally work. IGP wasn't an angel investor, and it's highly unlikely they're treating this like a car loan.

[Joe Mallad]

PropagandaWar, on 08 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Of course it is. Always was. Hell they were announced at pretty much the same time; not knowing the success of either. So earlier statements were just pointless.Do you guys have access to the contracts between the devs and publishers? You have no idea how much IGP is getting or how much of it they are putting in the other titles. I bet you its nothing compaired to MWO though. However what friggin business is it of ours what the pub does with its money. PGI is probably getting the larger cut as is right and they are the ones who make the game descisions.


Last few days Ive seen your name pop up. Its always negative. Go troll elswhere unless you have something constructive to say.

wait WOOO! I never said anything about where the money was, went or needs to go. I really could care less. Once we give it over to them, they can do with it as they see fit. All i said is IGP was behind both games. And in almost every case... the head company that is running the show for multiple games will in fact take ALL money brought in from all games its backing and then redistribute %s of that money where they see fit. Just because we may throw $100,000 (example) of our money toward this game in say a few weeks, does not mean that same $100,000 is put back into this game. In fact id be surprised if 1/4 of that went back into this game.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 08 March 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Shumabot]

Mercules, on 08 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

If they were being used as such it would be our concern. Founders Program was to help develop MWO. Hey look... MWO! Mechwarrior Tactics is done by a different development team that doesn't get ANY of PGI's money they made off of the Founder's program except maybe filtered indirectly through IGP taking it's cut of PGI's profits from being the publishing company and then investing in another project.

Why do you think that's how their contract works? That's not how these contracts ever work, and the founders program was likely contractually split well before the public ever heard about it. They certainly haven't taken that money to get staff or equipment, they already had both and haven't improved either.

Where do you think that moneys going.

Edited by Shumabot, 08 March 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Where do you think that moneys going.

To the publisher as their cut of the profits, just like I said. What the publisher does beyond that is not PGI's fault. Once it is on IGP's books then it is theirs to do with. That doesn't mean the portion PGI gets is not invested by PGI for PGI. That doesn't mean my founders money didn't get used for it's purposes which was development of MWO. It means IGP then took their cut and invested it elsewhere.

Now, if I give money to PGI and NOT Roadhouse where do you think IGP will reinvest? Where people are putting in money. So even if half my money is going to IGP and used to start up another project it still makes PGI lucrative and look better to their publisher so that the game continues.

[Shumabot]

Mercules, on 08 March 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

To the publisher as their cut of the profits, just like I said. What the publisher does beyond that is not PGI's fault. Once it is on IGP's books then it is theirs to do with. That doesn't mean the portion PGI gets is not invested by PGI for PGI. That doesn't mean my founders money didn't get used for it's purposes which was development of MWO. It means IGP then took their cut and invested it elsewhere.

Now, if I give money to PGI and NOT Roadhouse where do you think IGP will reinvest? Where people are putting in money. So even if half my money is going to IGP and used to start up another project it still makes PGI lucrative and look better to their publisher so that the game continues.

Why do you think they'd do that? You're assuming altruism in business, and that's foolish. IGP has every incentive to take from paul to give to peter so that both revenue streams can become active as soon as possible. Stop presuming there are ethics in the interactive entertainment business. There aren't.

There has been no visible efficacy in the founders money for PGI. No one has been hired, they haven't improved the servers, they already had all of their equipment. If that money has been spent it's been spent on lavish office furniture, it sure as hell hasn't gone to getting more personnel to increase the rate of development (which is still incredibly sluggish).

Edited by Shumabot, 08 March 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Mercules]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Why do you think they'd do that? You're assuming altruism in business, and that's foolish. IGP has every incentive to take from paul to give to peter so that both revenue streams can become active as soon as possible. Stop presuming there are ethics in the interactive entertainment business. There aren't.

There has been no visible efficacy in the founders money for PGI. No one has been hired, they haven't improved the servers, they already had all of their equipment. If that money has been spent it's been spent on lavish office furniture, it sure as hell hasn't gone to getting more personnel.

Wow... you have their accounting books? You think existing payroll is free? I'm sure renting an office space and T3 trunks is free.

For someone who "understands" business you don't seem to understand operation costs.


As for IGP I know my company doesn't continue projects that don't make money. I would assume any successful business would have a similar model. "Oh, we have sold 4 subscriptions in the last month? We should dump some more money into it. That will bring more subscribers." NOT.

[Divine Madcat]

Still sitting on 15k of my founders .. nothing out there worth using it on...

[Max Power]

Vermaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Man I can't believe you didn't want any of the camo colors, or some of the bitchin' patterns, or any of the cockpit items, or more premium time. Sure, they're all dumb things but I loves my "salmon" colored paint, my camo patterns, my Classy Mech cockpit bobble, the chinese lanterns, the christmas lights, the extra mechbays...on and on. Besides, I didn't have anything else to spend the MC on since the hero mechs will always be 'too expensive' and I didn't really need more premium time. Just can't fathom the attitude of "there's nothing worth MC."

Unless you tell me you didn't ever use your premium time...in which case I need to go away because fork trying to grind several mech lines' worth of XP without premium.

I don't give a crap about aesthetics. Not in game, not in real life. I don't wash my car, cause it offers no real benefit other than making it look nicer and it doesn't snow here, so no salt to wash off. Same thing with mech paint jobs. I don't care what it looks like, color wise. Plus, I can't even see it during a match. I'm just like you but in reverse, I don't believe someone could care about such trivial stuff and even pay money for it.

And yeah, maybe you should go away cause I haven't activated my time yet. (kidding, not meant to be mean) I'm still thinking of ebaying my account because I don't like how the game has progressed since beta went open. It will go for more on ebay with full founders MC and time.

As far as the grind without founders time, playing matches is a grind I am ok with, since I am going to be doing that anyway. yeah it takes a lot longer, but I'm not in any epeen battles, so I don't care. I play to have fun. Plus, it would be a waste since I don't play much nowadays.

[Novakaine]

1,530,742 US greenbacks!
Common really?

[slide]

I've spent my original 20k founders and bought another 30k when they had the special. I have about 15k left. All up thats $220 since the Foundes programme was released.

I have barely played another game in that time. At store prices here in Aus that would equate to about 2 top shelf console games or the PC equivalent. Those games might last me 2 or 3 weeks. I would contend that MWO has actually saved me money since I usually bought a new game every 6-8 weeks. I bought Civilisation 5, 2 days before I got into closed Beta and have played it about 5 times since, that was wasted money.

My MC spends so far have been on Mechbays, a few mechs early on, Unit paints (3000) but by far I spend the most on xp conversions so I don't have to spend time playing garbage chassis just so I can level up the one I like.

I will carefully spend what I have left until CW gets here and PGI stop wasting resourses on stuff they said they would never bring in (Coolant Pod, 3rd person etc) and get the game they promised out to us. I have still to activate my founders premium time.

BTW the argument over MW Tactics and funding is probably more complicated than anyone knows. There are at least 2 employees that I can think of that are working on both projects, this indicates that at the very least they are sharing resources.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

This thread got me curious. I noticed that the last listed transaction was FEB 16th, which lists a significantly larger amount of MC available that I currently have. What happened to all the MC between FEB 16th and today?

[BumbleBee]

I've used pretty much all of my Founders MC, and I'm waiting for the next MC sale. I'll be dropping $100 when it happens.

Edited by BumbleBee, 08 March 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[Deux]

Shumabot, on 08 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'd say its the business of any founder if the funds are being used in an unethical fashion that goes against the stated intention of the founders program.

You're bad at propaganda, you just sound like a child. In one post you are absolutely certain that the money isn't going to MW:T, in the next you say no one could possibly know that and it's not our business. Shifting sands much?

in that case, tell us where the money trail leads? Otherwise......