47 replies to this topic

[pesco]

Out of idle curiosity, I made myself a second account the other day and started from the very bottom. No founder, no MC, no premium.

It is a nightmare.

I have been playing the game since closed beta, so I'm fairly confident in saying I'm not a bad player. I don't even want to imagine what it is like for someone who is an actual noob, not just dressed like one.

The stock trial Mechs are an absolute joke, as people have been saying forever. Slow, undergunned, underarmored, prone to overheat, everyone's favorite targets to pick off.

In these things I'm not helping my team no matter how decent I play, I'm actively hurting its performance. Add to that that half my team consists of other (actual) noobs who can't tell their thumbs apart.

A few frustrating losses later and I'm pretty sure Elo has put me in a swamp of absolute *******. Suddenly not half my team consists of idiots, my entire team consists of idiots.

The only consolation is that the cadet bonus has filled my C-Bill balance pretty quickly so I could buy a real Mech. Unfortunately, my experience with the trials has not helped me judge at all which Mech I like. I performed horribly in all of them.

What is the purpose of the trial Mechs? Why are they in the game? Playing a few frustrating games just so you can buy a different Mech you know nothing about? That can't be it, can it?

[MadPanda]

You did not get the "new player" experience by just making a new account. A truly new player doesn't know what's good and what's bad. He isn't going to go into a game with a trial mech and be like "oh this is soo bad, I need doubleheatsinks and this ERLL should be a PPC instead and I need a bigger engine", No, not a single thought like that goes in their mind. All they see is the action and make a decision based on that if they want to continue. The big bank from cadet bonus will probably keep most playing the 25 games if their initial experience was good enough (to their standards, not to yours as a veteran). They will also be less concerned about winning or losing because they acknowledge that this is a new game to them and they are still learning. Taking a 0-5 is not gonna bother them as much as it bothers you.

[Marduk Moreau]

I have had no trouble grinding for a Mech of my own. Sure the trial mechs were less than Stellar. but the actual grind was short and had me in a Raven-3L in a few hours my first day. I am now grinding Hunchbacks and bought some Premium time to help that along. I am over half way through basics on them and enjoying the diversity. I can not decide if the 4G or the 4SP is my favorite Hunchback.

Downside of the grind If you are not the top four your payoff is slow. having to grind for Double Sinks to make the 4P managable then for the 4SP is the slow part, and slightly boring. But the occasional splatting of an Atlas's head makes it tolerable.

[vrok]

MadPanda, on 09 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

You did not get the "new player" experience by just making a new account. A truly new player doesn't know what's good and what's bad. He isn't going to go into a game with a trial mech and be like "oh this is soo bad, I need doubleheatsinks and this ERLL should be a PPC instead and I need a bigger engine", No, not a single thought like that goes in their mind. All they see is the action and make a decision based on that if they want to continue. The big bank from cadet bonus will probably keep most playing the 25 games if their initial experience was good enough (to their standards, not to yours as a veteran). They will also be less concerned about winning or losing because they acknowledge that this is a new game to them and they are still learning. Taking a 0-5 is not gonna bother them as much as it bothers you.

Completely delusional.

A new player will shut down over and over again for a couple of games and think the game is bull**** (rightfully), because he has almost no impact on the outcome of the game and quit. There is no action for him, only shutdowns and running around without being able to fire at all without understanding why and thinking that this is how the game is actually played. Cadet bonus means nothing if the gameplay is absolutely horrible for those games. Most people don't have the patience or time to waste hours on a game they feel is bad. That the game has subpar graphics and no CW doesn't exactly help either to maintain interest during this time.

Every player that isn't already a founder that I have introduced to the game has done this. Every single one. Doesn't even matter if I tell them that the game gets a lot better when you can fully customize your own mech later on. They can't be certain that it will be good enough even then, and it doesn't make up for the hours of pain they're going through right now.

Edited by vrok, 09 March 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Jabilo]

I want to get my friend involved, but I remember what it was like when I started. Terrible!

Bear in mind I had played previous mech warrior games - some guys will come in only having played standard FPS. If they are allowed to click "launch" before a basic intro they are not going to even have heard of the concept of walking one way and firing another!

They have introduced training grounds, but you would not even know it was there or how to access it unless you followed the forum and patch notes!

Desperately needs a mandatory fully voiced in game tutorial to introduce the basics of movement, sensors, hud, grouping and tactics 101.

It also needs to cover mech basics, mech lab and UI.

Make it fun, give achievements and credits for completing the different stages of tutorials.

I think it needs to be a big priority to grow the player base which is good for everyone.

How about downloadable resources too, a manual for example? What would be good is a quick reference card you can print. An annotated diagram of the hud and common keyboard commands.

Maybe install browser shortcuts to new player help section of the forum.

And yes, putting new players in a selection of terrible mechs is not the best idea either.

Edited by Jabilo, 09 March 2013 - 06:07 AM.

[PoLaR]

I remember when I first started in CB. I sucked, died a lot, the maps seemed huge and I could seemingly walk in any direction forever. But, It was soooo much fun and refreshing to play MWO.

Yes, starting over would be a nightmare... but for the new player who keeps playing those trial 'Mechs game after game, and finally saves up enough for their own BattleMech.. It's a pretty great feeling.

So maybe the new player experience still Isn't the greatest, but It's getting better and better every patch I would say. With the edition of the new Training Grounds, It's perfect for players to get used to fighting, finding weak points in enemy armor, testing weapons to see what "feels" right, and so on.

[armyof1]

Whether a new player will stick around or not really depends on how much that person can stand being really ineffective until he can afford his own mech with all the necessary upgrades like Endo, DHS etc. Trial mechs really need to be at least decent, instead of the horrible over-heating and slow piles of dung most of them are. Also another problem is ELO is still really out of whack, so new players will often be tossed into matches with experienced players in their fully customized mechs, because those good players in your team will need the really new and by default bad players even running trial mechs to balance it out against mostly average opponents in the opposing team. I had a lot more hope for ELO to be able to keep players of vastly different skill seperated from each other, but instead we see a lot of better players grouped with really bad and consider that a balanced team. Is it ELO not working properly, or is it the lack of players that force us to make these teams that differ greatly in skill? I don't know, all I know is it's still far from optimal for interesting and even games.

Edited by armyof1, 09 March 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[Vahnn]

I don't know, I loved the game from the moment I started playing, Trial 'mechs and all. After my first couple matches of overheating like crazy, I realized I should regroup my weapons and simply fire less often. To compensate for my lack of 1v1 ability, I would find the biggest guy and hang out with him.

The problem for me came when it was time to purchase my own mech. I wanted a new mech asap so that I could start generating Mech XP and General XP, but I had no idea which mech was right for me. I ended up buying a Hunchback 4SP. That was fine, and I liked that. The REAL problem for me was the complete lack of detailed info about the various components you can install. At the time I started, the only info given for weapons was a vague description and their tonnage, maybe the number of slots required. I remember I'd only know the damage dealt by weapons by adding/subtracting from the Firepower stat, and for Heat Dissipation... I had no damn clue.

So I spent most of my Cadet Bonus money on trying out new items whose actual stats and effective uses were a mystery to me until I tried them out. Yeah, there's a wiki, but that's no fun, and in a game that has only recently gone open beta, you can never really trust the info on those wikis.

But the current mechbay layout with all the new info available directly in the interface basically clears up all the issues I had with the game as a beginner. I did play MW2, 3, and 4, but that was over 10 years ago.

[MadPanda]

vrok, on 09 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Completely delusional.

A new player will shut down over and over again for a couple of games and think the game is bull**** (rightfully), because he has almost no impact on the outcome of the game and quit. There is no action for him, only shutdowns and running around without being able to fire at all without understanding why and thinking that this is how the game is actually played. Cadet bonus means nothing if the gameplay is absolutely horrible for those games. Most people don't have the patience or time to waste hours on a game they feel is bad. That the game has subpar graphics and no CW doesn't exactly help either to maintain interest during this time.

Every player that isn't already a founder that I have introduced to the game has done this. Every single one. Doesn't even matter if I tell them that the game gets a lot better when you can fully customize your own mech later on. They can't be certain that it will be good enough even then, and it doesn't make up for the hours of pain they're going through right now.

If it was so terrible for you, why are you still here? You aren't a founder.

And obviously this game isn't for everybody. I haven't even introduced mwo to my friends because I already know that this game isn't their cup of tea. If your friends tried to get you play Hello Kitty, would you say the game is crap and needs a better new player experience or would you say it wasn't your type of game? Wonder if your friend would then be at Hello kitty forums saying "everyone I introduce this game hates it boohoo".

[Vahnn]

Also, if players would take 5 minutes and look through the Pilot/Mech trees, the mech upgrades, and all the gear available (like I did), you would see that these crappy trial mechs are NOT what the game is like. I realized that right away, and it pushed me harder to save up for my first mech so I could start Pimping My Ride.

[Elizander]

I still think that Single Heat Sinks should be buffed (at least the engine ones upped to 1.2-1.4) and that the new basic 6 heat coolant flush be attached to all trial mechs. This should make the NPE a bit better (not stellar, but better!).

[JohnathanSwift]

MadPanda, on 09 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

You did not get the "new player" experience by just making a new account. A truly new player doesn't know what's good and what's bad. He isn't going to go into a game with a trial mech and be like "oh this is soo bad, I need doubleheatsinks and this ERLL should be a PPC instead and I need a bigger engine", No, not a single thought like that goes in their mind. All they see is the action and make a decision based on that if they want to continue. The big bank from cadet bonus will probably keep most playing the 25 games if their initial experience was good enough (to their standards, not to yours as a veteran). They will also be less concerned about winning or losing because they acknowledge that this is a new game to them and they are still learning. Taking a 0-5 is not gonna bother them as much as it bothers you.

Cadet bonus can be prevented by a team of Golds with low ELO who choose to cap.

A new player will lose the majority of his cadet multiplier from Cap losses netting him roughly 2-3 million for his cadet games.

Afterward he is really in the hole.

Edited by JohnathanSwift, 09 March 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[vrok]

MadPanda, on 09 March 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

If it was so terrible for you, why are you still here? You aren't a founder.

And obviously this game isn't for everybody. I haven't even introduced mwo to my friends because I already know that this game isn't their cup of tea. If your friends tried to get you play Hello Kitty, would you say the game is crap and needs a better new player experience or would you say it wasn't your type of game? Wonder if your friend would then be at Hello kitty forums saying "everyone I introduce this game hates it boohoo".

I have quit. I've quit about 10 times since September. The only reason I came back eventually each time was because I'm a Mechwarrior and tactical shooter fan and had nothing else to play at the moment and thought I'd check if they'd made any progress, which they often hadn't. Eventually I came over the hurdle just by accident really. Spending many hours reading the guides and battlemech forums while running trial mechs to their deaths as fast as possible also helped, something most players, including my friends, will simply not do at all.

My friends and I have played all previous PC Mechwarrior games and are fans of the series. If such players are not considered the demographic for this game, then I don't need to tell you what is eventually going to happen. The latest consumable cash grab scheme is just the beginning of the emergency measures that will be needed to keep this game afloat if this continues.

Edited by vrok, 09 March 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

I started the game relatively recently, and the new player experience was pretty harsh. However, it wasn't really as bad for me as OP worries, because I was able to find out enough about this game from looking at the wiki/various guides/videos/etc. to know that (for instance) a SHS-equipped trial Awesome with 1 PPC, 1 LLas, 1 SLas, and one LRM rack or a trial Cataphract with light side torso armor and an XL engine are terrible, terrible robots that I would be happy to replace ASAP. I got pugstomped a lot,* had my "yay, first kill!" and "yay, I'm consistently doing over 100 damage before dying!" moments, bought a DDC, and was fine from there.

Honestly, my FPS issues (used to be running the game on an old laptop and could barely eke out 15-20 FPS with custom configs) were a bigger obstacle than the trial mechs were to my enjoyment of the game. Learning curve is brutal, though - there are a lot of things (what robots are good, what tactics are effective, how all the weapons/heatsinks/engines/etc. work, and so on) that are not immediately apparent from anything in the actual game. I do think it could use a tutorial. But it's not like this incredibly horrible new player experience or anything.

*There's an improvement for you - no more pitting of people who barely know how to drive their robot against premades.

[JimSuperBleeder]

With the addition of the "practice mode" I think it will help A LOT; because you have a chance now to get a feel for the game. Not so much actual combat but seeing how weapons work as well as mech control.

The game leaves no room for failure on the battlefield, so for new players it will be a little rough. In time I think it will get a little better once the elo system has been worked on some more.

[tuokaerf]

This will help a lot:

http://mwomercs.com/...hallenge-heavy/

I was horrible when I first started, and kind of expected to since I remembered a learning curve with the previous games.

This game attracts a different player base that's going to be a bit older and niche. To be successful, you have to learn about the different weapons types, Mechs, and master some difficult controls. Someone who doesn't want to do this is going to have a bad time anyways.

PGI's doing an OK job adding in some more help. I'm guessing there will be a lot more post Open Beta, especially since they've been making more UI/UX changes (why make a ton of videos on building mechs and explaining them when the UI isn't finished?).

[JimSuperBleeder]

tuokaerf, on 09 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

This will help a lot:

http://mwomercs.com/...hallenge-heavy/

I was horrible when I first started, and kind of expected to since I remembered a learning curve with the previous games.

This game attracts a different player base that's going to be a bit older and niche. To be successful, you have to learn about the different weapons types, Mechs, and master some difficult controls. Someone who doesn't want to do this is going to have a bad time anyways.

PGI's doing an OK job adding in some more help. I'm guessing there will be a lot more post Open Beta, especially since they've been making more UI/UX changes (why make a ton of videos on building mechs and explaining them when the UI isn't finished?).

I have thought about making some build videos, or at least a one good starter video.

My big thing is getting fresh players into the groove and playing better. Thus promoting a stronger, wiser community.

Edited by JimSuperBleeder, 09 March 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Panzerman03]

JohnathanSwift, on 09 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Cadet bonus can be prevented by a team of Golds with low ELO who choose to cap.

A new player will lose the majority of his cadet multiplier from Cap losses netting him roughly 2-3 million for his cadet games.

Afterward he is really in the hole.

Cadet bonus isn't a multiplier. It's flat.

[Kristov Kerensky]

It's funny, saw someone in a trial Mech the other day top the scorecard with the most kills and most damage, obviously those things are totally worthless...in the hands of people who can't use them properly.

This is a MechWarrior title, a game series that has never been easy for the total newcomer to just jump in and master in a few minutes of play like they can with CoD or BF games because there's more to it then point and click while jumping around like a jumping bean that's been soaked in liquid ******* for the past week.

The previous titles usually had tutorial/training missions that you could use to learn how Mechs move, get used to facing 1 direction while walking in another and so on. And I recall quite vividly all the people who used to totally ignore ALL of the single player experience for the previous MW games and just jump right online and get all sorts of discouraged because they didn't have a clue.

Know what the biggest and most important piece of advice we used to give new players to the MW series? Play the single player campaign through to the very end before you even think of jumping into online play. Know how often it listened to? About as often as people listen to their parents telling them to not do whatever..

Tutorials would help, but the fact is, most of the people playing online games don't bother with tutorials, they jump straight into the action and sink or swim and are either happy with the results OR they complain about stupid hard the game is. The people who complain never once stop to consider that if they'd used the tutorial that it might not be so hard...because that would be making THEM responsible and the gods know that ain't gonna happen, it's NEVER the player's fault that they didn't bother to learn about the game they want to play, it should be stupid simple like CoD or BF!

Me, I whip out a trial Mech every so often for fun. They aren't great, but they aren't horrible either, they are functional. They teach newcomers that you need to watch your heat and ammo and that your armor isn't unlimited.

Oh, and if you can't see the Training Grounds blurb and links to how to get there on the Front End of the game...I've said this before...I was not aware there were so many BLIND sods playing video games.

[Warskull]

MadPanda, on 09 March 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

You did not get the "new player" experience by just making a new account. A truly new player doesn't know what's good and what's bad. He isn't going to go into a game with a trial mech and be like "oh this is soo bad, I need doubleheatsinks and this ERLL should be a PPC instead and I need a bigger engine", No, not a single thought like that goes in their mind. All they see is the action and make a decision based on that if they want to continue. The big bank from cadet bonus will probably keep most playing the 25 games if their initial experience was good enough (to their standards, not to yours as a veteran). They will also be less concerned about winning or losing because they acknowledge that this is a new game to them and they are still learning. Taking a 0-5 is not gonna bother them as much as it bothers you.

No, they go in and think "my mech doesn't do any damage, this game is stupid and imbalanced", then they quit. An experienced player knows the stock are terrible and they know why. A new player just knows their mech sucks, they'll assume the game is pay to win because everyone else has a way better mech or that the game is terribly balanced and a waste of their time. They won't go in and think "oh its so much fun getting stomped into the ground."

The solution is simply, give them proper starter mechs. Instead of giving them stock mechs, let the playerbase design some mechs and rotate them. They don't have to be optimized or competitive level, just workable.

Edited by Warskull, 09 March 2013 - 05:18 PM.