187 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

TexAss, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

For what? To insta-kill everyone?

Go back to COD MechWarrior, MeachWarrior2, MechWarrior3 & MechWarrior4. I wanna see you saying that after you've been hit by a UAC20 or 2 Clan-LRM20 or ripped in pieces by Tier 3 Airstrikes+Artillery

I have been hit with all those attacks (Although for me it was the Advanced Artillery. We have it way to easy. I remember a 9 year old kid, got his Dire Wolf's head shot off first shot of the game. He pouted for a second, then went on to cheer his friend on in a Bloodname Tournament. If a 9 year old could handle dying that fast I would hope grown ups could do the same!

[Wintersdark]

River Walker, on 09 March 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Will looks like the Bad Light pilots are starting to find out that they Suck.
No more running at a heavy No more running around a target and getting saved by Lagshield.
Most drops I am in last up to 6 to 8 minutes and I am far from being Leet in a Mech . I don't see this BS of hole sale sluttier happening out their.
I think its a case of OP is a light Mech driver and need to spend time on the training grounds or move up to a Heavy.

Yup. If you're dying too fast now - and where not before, thanks to lag shields - then the problem isn't the game mechanics, it's just that you need to (excuse this) learn to play.

Torso twist. Move in unpredictable patterns. Don't circle someone endlessly expecting them to miss you.

[Khobai]

Quote

Battletech fights were indeed resolved in a very short time frame. A single AC/20 burst could ravage nearly any mech. But, that said, I'm not terribly interested in canon accuracy.

Not really. Because that AC/20 shot could hit anywhere. Battletech had random hit locations. Really the only mechs that got ravaged by AC/20s were light mechs because none of their locations could soak the damage.

[vrok]

Increasing weapon cooldowns is the much better idea IMO rather than increasing armor, at least to begin with. Shouldn't have many repercussions on other game systems other than heat, which has long been an issue all on its own anyway. Would make aiming feel more important and combat more tactical overall too. There's too much spam as is anyway.

Edited by vrok, 09 March 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 09 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Not really. Because that AC/20 shot could hit anywhere. Battletech had random hit locations. Really the only mechs that got ravaged by AC/20s were light mechs because none of their locations could soak the damage.

Not a lot of Mechs could soak more than 2 AC20 to a location. and lights were not the only Mech that had to worry about instant internals when an AC20 came knocking.

[Ens]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Halfing the armor would make unequal fights more balanced.

explain your thoughts.... in detail please

[Wintersdark]

Khobai, on 09 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Not really. Because that AC/20 shot could hit anywhere. Battletech had random hit locations. Really the only mechs that got ravaged by AC/20s were light mechs because none of their locations could soak the damage.

I understand about the random hit locations, but the point was that whereever that AC20 burst hit, that location would be right messed up. If not outright destroyed, extremely heavily damaged - and it wasn't just lights, but mediums and a lot of heavies too - a single ac20 hit was bad, two would crush practically everything.

[Khobai]

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Not a lot of Mechs could soak more than 2 AC20 to a location. and lights were not the only Mech that had to worry about instant internals when an AC20 came knocking.

Yes but hitting the same location with an AC/20 did not happen very often statistically. The center torso got hit the most with around a 20% chance. So 1/5 x 1/5 = 1/25 chance to hit the most probable location twice. That's 4%.

The whole purpose of the random hit location table in Battletech was that it spread damage roughly evenly to every location of a mech. It prevented you from just alphastriking all your weapons into one location and killing that mech instantly. Which is currently what MWO allows.

Quote

I understand about the random hit locations, but the point was that whereever that AC20 burst hit, that location would be right messed up. If not outright destroyed, extremely heavily damaged - and it wasn't just lights, but mediums and a lot of heavies too - a single ac20 hit was bad, two would crush practically everything.

Not sure what you're talking about. If 50% your AC/20 shots are randomly hitting arms and legs (and the other 50% hitting a random torso section) then that mech is still going to soak way more damage than if you could aim 100% of your AC/20 shots at a specific location, even if that location has double armor like in MWO.

We already see the effect of spreading damage vs pinpoint damage when comparing the survivability of lights vs assaults. Lights spread damage out all over their body due to their speed and small size. Assaults tend to get hit mostly in the center torso. That is why Lights survive better despite having less armor.

Edited by Khobai, 09 March 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Wintersdark, on 09 March 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

I understand about the random hit locations, but the point was that whereever that AC20 burst hit, that location would be right messed up. If not outright destroyed, extremely heavily damaged - and it wasn't just lights, but mediums and a lot of heavies too - a single ac20 hit was bad, two would crush practically everything.

sounds like my AC20 hunchie in MWO...2 shots and a laser follow up to most equally sized mechs = death for them.

[verybad]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Halfing the armor would make unequal fights more balanced. A team with more mechs than their enemies wouldn't have as much of a tanking advantage as the other team. I don't expect you to understand because you're to ignorant. "Go back to COD" Screw that.

Following that line of thought, get rid of ALL the armor would make the game completely balanced, and in a way, it would, it just wouldn't be much fun.

Fact is, halving the armor would make mechs like the Atlas be able to still survive a few hits, and everything else likely to be killed in the firse hit they took. The objective fore the game builds would be long range alphas, brawling would be gone,

[Joseph Mallan]

Those statstics don't hold water at our table. i saw many rolls where the hits went, 7,7,6,8,9,7. Plus TT had Called shots. So we did have massed fire into one location. Worked really well with large Pulse lasers and Tageting computers if you were a Clanner. Add in the Pulse Laser Expert and you had an easy time crippling mechs all over the battlefield.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 March 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Thoummim]

Yeah nerf the light again !

Wut light were nerfed by double armor ?

Yes their damage is so weak it take a looooooong time to kill anything that not a light, giving the ennemy plenty of time to OS the little f*****. With quadruple armor light can forget killing anything and get OS by assault and 2~3shot by anything else.

By the way netcode fix ?



3L still OP.

[SteelJaws]

I'd say tweak the weapon fire times back to what they should be, so your "Big" weapons can on be brought to bear every so often, then the matches would last longer.

As to speed of these matches, in MPBT a light battle was done in the first volley. You would both take a Jenner, and as soon as you got in range you would fire your lasers and srm and hit the sweet spot under the head, you could try to evade but generally it was done in the first shot.

Same would go with Catapult fights, close the distance as soon as possible jump up a bit and alpha right behind the head and kill it in one shot.

Armor is fine currently, I do agree the matches can be a bit short, but I think its the weapon speed more than anything at this point. If you had to wait 10 seconds to bring your PPC or Gauss back into the fight, people wouldn't boat them as much, they would be forced back to the standard weapons, and if they all went by their true firing times, they game would slow down alot.

[Khobai]

Quote

Those statstics don't hold water at our table.

Then your table seriously violates the rules of mathematics.

Chance to roll a 7 on 2d6 = ~16.66%
Chance to roll a 2 on 2d6 = ~2.77%

Center Torso gets hit 19.43% of the time. (.1943)^2 = .378 or a 3.78% chance to hit the center torso twice in a row

Whenever I played Battletech, the damage always spread out very evenly, until locations started getting destroyed and damage transfer kicked in.

Quote

Plus TT had Called shots.

TT did have called shots but only in very specific cases which don't apply to MWO at all. Since MWO has neither knocked down or disabled mechs. Also clan mechs arn't in the game yet.

Edited by Khobai, 09 March 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Fate 6]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

No...just no. If anything they NEED TO HALF THE ARMOR.

So then energy weapons are useless?

Right now I feel like lasers are just supplementary, and mechs like the 4P and 8Q get screwed because they can't take advantage of having a lot of energy hardpoints. I've been running my 4P, and unless you get an unusually long game where ammo starts actually becoming a factor, the mass of lasers is just a waste. Sustained damage is worthless as long as people can keep bursting off components in 1-2 hits.

[SteelJaws]

Posting again, as I just checked the cooldown times, everything is about 3-4 seconds, the slowest is the LRM20 at 4.75, If you had to wait another 6-8 seconds for your PPC to charge, or your Guass to reload, the fights would be significantly slower.

[WarGruf]

To be fair SteelJaws I think you've hit the nail on the head!
I'd put AC20, All types of LLazers, Guass, All types of PPCs in 10 sec group, AC10, LBX10, LRM, SRM into 7.5 sec group and the rest where they are now... I think that could bring this game back to life! Great Idea SteelJaws!

[Gaan Cathal]

Fate 6, on 09 March 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

So then energy weapons are useless?

Right now I feel like lasers are just supplementary, and mechs like the 4P and 8Q get screwed because they can't take advantage of having a lot of energy hardpoints. I've been running my 4P, and unless you get an unusually long game where ammo starts actually becoming a factor, the mass of lasers is just a waste. Sustained damage is worthless as long as people can keep bursting off components in 1-2 hits.

Increased armour would make this more likely, surely?

Personally I think increased armour to the tune of treble TT might work. Quad armour seems like it would be excessive, but an increase does seem in order, since pinpoint aiming is seriously affecting engagement durations. It'd help with the missile 'issues' as well.

[Splinters]

Well instead of doubling armor we could do a couple other alternatives:

#1) double the reload/re-charge time so DPS won't be as high.
#2) double the heat of every weapon.
#3) Create a % hit to another location at 66% and higher of max range so if the shot is supposedly aimed at the CT it will have a 60% chance to hit that location, but it will have a chance to spread out to other locations.
#4) double the torso armor available so mechs can last longer (XL and regular).

I don't agree that armor needs to be upped, but just a few ideas to see if there are better ways to address the OP's problem.

-S

[xRatas]

Khobai, on 09 March 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Center Torso gets hit 19.43% of the time. (.1943)^2 = .378 or a 3.78% chance to hit the center torso twice in a row.

TT did have called shots but only in very specific cases which don't apply to MWO at all. Since MWO has neither knocked down or disabled mechs. Also clan mechs arn't in the game yet.

I disagree on these slightly. It didn't really matter, where your first AC20 shot landed, only thing that matter, is that second shot lands in a same spot. Losing an arm was not usually that bad, but anything else was basically game over for that mech. So we are talking only one roll that really matters, not two. So roughly 15% chance to do something nasty with 2 hits.

Targeting Computer allowed called shots on active targets, clan mech with TC and 4 LPL was rather brutal thing.

Edited by xRatas, 09 March 2013 - 11:30 AM.