68 replies to this topic

[HRR Insanity]

Khobai, on 10 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Bundled weapons should be able to fire with perfect accuracy too. Any RNG is bad for the game. Period.

Bundled weapons break the armor/damage model and can never be balanced so long as we have hit locations, armor, and weapons that damage them.

See the proposal and the detailed description of the problem.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ranek Blackstone, on 10 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Which is, oddly enough, pretty much right where we are now in terms of average match length once the shooting starts.

As for durability, as long as I don't do anything stupid my XL powered Cataphract will see the end of a match despite his large side torsos and that shotgun I mount in my hip.

that 2 minutes was including the time it took to reach one another from the far side of the map! My matches last roughly 4-6 minutes, unless its Conquest and both sides are really trying to cap!

[Khobai]

Quote

Bundled weapons break the armor/damage model and can never be balanced so long as we have hit locations, armor, and weapons that damage them.

Not true at all. Armor just has to be redistributed based on the hit location probability in MWO.

If people aim for center torso 60%-80% of the time then it needs 3-4 times more armor than tabletop.

[Nonsense]

HRR Insanity, on 10 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

See the proposal and the detailed description of the problem.

There is no problem, really. The length of combat is pretty good where it is, and "bundled" weapons aren't that bad of a problem. They're only a real issue for bad players who don't move enough and expose themselves to stupid situations.

There is however, a problem with increasing armor, and that is it's a giant nerf to long range combat and a huge buff to speedy mechs and short range weapons. If you can't punch through the armor of an advancing mech before it gets to you, there's no real penalty to that mech potentially boating short range weapons. You can't simply buff armor without all sorts of balance changes.

This entire suggestion lacks the obvious consideration that while fights may be lengthened by increased armor values, they would also increasingly happen at shorter ranges unless all long range weapons were given reduced heat output or increased damage. It already happened the first time they doubled armor...they then spent months rebalancing the heat and damage of LRMs, large lasers, PPC projectile speed, etc.

[Bishop Steiner]

KingCobra, on 10 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Like i have stated before we have tested the armor on all mechs shot for shot the dammage now compared to a year ago has doubled DPS and the armor remained at its first values.In fact you keep saying they doubled the code for the armor to take 2x the dammage? lets see the line of code? what they did was adjust the visual count of the armor not the actual ingame difference of the armor.

cool.. got proof? Cuz with "TT" armor, a single gauss rifle will decapitate ANY mech in the game. Funnily enough, 2 Gauss won't in MWO (unless carrying LESS than max armor). And 2 AC/20s to the back of pretty much ANY mech should core it, but doesn't. gotta call BS on you.

[Malora Sidewinder]

Tahribator, on 10 March 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

So why is there boating? The problem isn't the armor, it's how the hardpoints are handled in game; it promotes boating. On most of the mechs, it lets us stack two weapon of the same type on top of a single visible slot. Take the Awesome 8Q for example; it has only 4 visible laser hardpoints. Yet, you can fit 7 because 3 of them take double lasers. It will melt anything in this game.

Must... control... nerdrage...


i can't.

you're complaining about the awesome 8Q being TOO powerful as a boat???
it "melts anything?"

WHAT GAME ARE YOU PLAYING!? I'm super happy to see an awesome on the battlefield, because no matter what i'm in, I say to myself, "free kills!" and proceed to core out that awesome in just a few seconds... before his superelitehaxorlazerboatingomgwtbbqQQ QQ QQ QQ can even come CLOSE to doing lethal damage to me.

your argument is both fictitious and ridiculous. you have no idea how to play this game, and you have no idea how the game is played.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you can't punch through the armor of an advancing mech before it gets to you, there's no real penalty to that mech potentially boating short range weapons. You can't simply buff armor without all sorts of balance changes.

even if you doubled armor you could still easily punch through armor at long range... not really sure what youre talking about.

Atlases get cored to red internals in 1-2 lrm+artemis volleys as of the latest patch. So instead of 1-2 volleys it would just take 2-4 volleys. And certainly an lrm boat can get off 4 volleys before an atlas closes the distance.

[Nonsense]

Khobai, on 10 March 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

even if you doubled armor you could still easily punch through armor at long range... not really sure what youre talking about.

Not sure if we're playing the same game?

Quote

Atlases get cored to red internals in 1-2 lrm+artemis volleys as of the latest patch. So instead of 1-2 volleys it would just take 2-4 volleys. And certainly an lrm boat can get off 4 volleys before an atlas closes the distance.

For one, they JUST changed the artemis flight pattern, so using it as an example is somewhat useless since it's likely to see further changes. Much better to talk about the recently updated energy weapons (LLs, PPCs, etc). Right now, you can force enemies to take cover with LLs and PPC fire because it actually damages a significant percentage of their armor per shot. If you cut that damage output in half, there's no reason not to just mount the fastest engine possible, boat cooler-running short range weapons and simply close the distance and fight at sub-270m ranges.

For two, talking about moronic, unsupported assault mech pilots getting destroyed in the open by LRMs is rather irrelevant. That player is going to be obliterated and do very little damage regardless of weapon balance or armor tweaks. It'll just take more ammo and time to do it.

[Reno Blade]

Single weapons (mounted or chainfired) are not as strong enough compared to a groupfire to one single location.
Here are some options i believe should fix most.
Concentrated fire (be it teamwork or alpha striking) is trumping currently.

1.) Convergence should be changed to have a wider angle of fire in most situations.(because of parallel firering lines)
Basically as if you had a crosshair for each section. (like 3x the +++ for torso and 2x the o for arms)
(o+++o) istead of (+)

2.) Multiple weapons fired together (like 5xLLaser or 6xPPC) should be harder on your own system and have higher heat or other downsided.
The Devs stated often enough they dont want to have everyone Alpha-striking day long, but its getting to the point where its more efficient (because of convergence and relatively good heat efficiency) to alpha.

3.) There should be more heat for movement. The faster you go, the more heat you create. This would also reduce the huge advantage of faster/lighter mechs using DHS compared to larger mechs.

4.) Incoming fire should always generate a small amount of heat. Explosions and melting armor with lasers can not be ignored on the heatscale. (ofc there has to be a maximum of external heat you can get per second)

5.) To balanace future high-tech /clan-tech, heat and ammo is the only option.
Most Clan energyweapons already come in higher damage and heat version than IS weapons (Clan does not have "standard" variants).
Clans fight with fierce force and high burst damage, but low ammo. Easyest fix would be to balance ammo amount and heat of weapons. There will be high burst, high range, high heat, low ammo clan weapons vs IS weapons of "normal" stats and more variete.