29 replies to this topic

[Th0rsten]

I need a third cataphract to go for elite. So far I have 3D in a sniper configuration and a 4x which is kind of trying to be a long range fire support.

As i have never used an AC20 yet I would love to play a brawler fielding one of these bad guys. As i don't want to end up playing on alpine and having trouble to get into close quarters, I decided to add a ppc in order to able to do at least some damage at long distance.

With these thoughts I came up with this build:

CTF-2X

I know it looks really hot on paper, but considering that ppc is used exclusively on long range, I get heat effieciencys of 66% for each short and long range. 2 srm2 as I there are only 4 tubes available anyway and they reload faster than a single srm4.

I need to save a couple of million cbills anyway before I can afford it. But some feedback if this build might be good to play would be appreciated.

edit: to clarify upfront I don't need to have the best possible loadout in terms of min/maxing. I just want to know if this might be cool to play.

Edited by Th0rsten, 01 March 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Wanderfalke NK]

I would get rid of the SRMs + Ammo, get one mor Ton of Ac20 ammo, and ad maybe one more mL and a heatsink or 2 more mL.
For me its never fun when I combine PPCs wit ACs Lasers and SRMs because allways you miss with some of this weaponry when your in a brawl.

[Th0rsten]

What amount of ammo is considered sufficient for an ac20? I often heard that it is usualy destroyed before you can fire 20 shots.

Dropping srms might be an option, but there is only one torso energy hardpoint left, I guess two lasers at different locations are equaly difficult to concentrate on the same spot? It would reduce my my close combat damage output by 5. Leaving the ppc out of the equation gives me a heat generation of 3.64hps while beeing able to dissipate 2.28hps (before basic skills).
So with a heat capacity of 58 i should be able to fire for to fire for about 42 seconds? (Does anyone know which temperature smurfy assumes or how to calculate these values for different maps?)

Is less firepower for a bigger time the better option for a brawler? Would make me sad. all these different weapons might be less than optimal but it might be fun.

[Wanderfalke NK]

If you ac20 ammo gets destroyed, your pretty much fukked
I played mine with a bigger engine, 3 mPls and an ac20. I used my left arm as a shield arm.

Imo there is no need to be effective on EVERY dinstance, but you need to be more aware of your terrain, how and where to move. This will prevent you from getting in the situation where you cant fight, while getting sniped.

[Hex Pallett]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...319c01d77705ea8

That PPC is so unnecessary.

[Zoccola]

ttp://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=42&l=4802fb7c52b8425d138d0356c5c2d39baf16c94c

This is the build I rocked when grinding up my cataphracts. It runs cool if you excercise some restraint. It works really well at the 500-800m range. It is vicisous at the 200-500m range.

Its a cash generator. Between the bonus for tagging stuff, and the assists you will rack up peppering the enemy with LRMs (fire volleys at everything), there is no reason why you should not finish with either 1-2 kills and 4-7 assists. The LRMS strip off the armor, the large lasers strip off armor, and the AC10 punches holes in stuff, seeking crits. My favourite build.

[MegaBusta]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...48c5eee379a6a28
Did some tweaking to your build, OP. an SRM4 nets you the exact same thing as 2SRM2, and runs cooler. You're not going to miss the cooldown difference.

That said, I like the idea with the ER PPC... I was struggling with what to do with my 2X for alpine. Might give this a shot.

Helmstif, on 01 March 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...319c01d77705ea8

That PPC is so unnecessary.

What the hell is this thing

Edited by MegaBusta, 01 March 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Th0rsten]

Wanderfalke NK, on 01 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

If you ac20 ammo gets destroyed, your pretty much fukked
I played mine with a bigger engine, 3 mPls and an ac20. I used my left arm as a shield arm.

Imo there is no need to be effective on EVERY dinstance, but you need to be more aware of your terrain, how and where to move. This will prevent you from getting in the situation where you cant fight, while getting sniped.

As long as we have only alpine as a bigger map it really does not make too much sense to aim for a more balanced loadout so I agree with you. I also like that you use pulse lase as I have no mech who currently uses them. Might give it a try.

Helmstif, on 01 March 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...319c01d77705ea8

That PPC is so unnecessary.

Is tag and ssrm a good combo? Assuming you want to counter ecm it leaves you a playing field of only 90m.

*******, on 01 March 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

ttp://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=42&l=4802fb7c52b8425d138d0356c5c2d39baf16c94c

This is the build I rocked when grinding up my cataphracts. It runs cool if you excercise some restraint. It works really well at the 500-800m range. It is vicisous at the 200-500m range.

Its a cash generator. Between the bonus for tagging stuff, and the assists you will rack up peppering the enemy with LRMs (fire volleys at everything), there is no reason why you should not finish with either 1-2 kills and 4-7 assists. The LRMS strip off the armor, the large lasers strip off armor, and the AC10 punches holes in stuff, seeking crits. My favourite build.

That looks amazing. if I wouldn't want to use the ac20 I might as well go for that. I'm no big fan of xl engines though. On the other hand i get cored cleary quite often in my 4x...

MegaBusta, on 01 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Did some tweaking to your build, OP. an SRM4 nets you the exact same thing as 2SRM2, and runs cooler. You're not going to miss the cooldown difference.

That said, I like the idea with the ER PPC... I was struggling with what to do with my 2X for alpine. Might give this a shot.

What the hell is this thing

I did'n watch the srm heat but running cooler might enable me to fit in a single ppc shot once in a while. I like that idea. Have to test it.

Thanks for the input guys. Still not really sure but looking forward to get that mech. (not even enough cbills for the chassis yet sigh)

[MrDerp]

If you are willing to sacrifice ranged firepower, I have a pretty good 2x brawler build. Its similar to what you have there.

280 std
AC 20 (3 ton of ammo)
2x SRM 6 (2 ton of ammo)
3x ML

The alpha on this is pretty freaking sick. I've wasted assaults with this build regularly. The heat isn't too bad either.

[beniliusbob]

MrDerp's build is probably without comparison for brawling. LIKE.

By the way, Ii you want to brawl and you're not using 2 SRM 6, you're doing it wrong. 30 damage and 12 hits. So much component destruction.

[Wanderfalke NK]

imo there is little to no sense using 2xsrm6 in the 2x while you have Lasers on board, because the Missilehardpoint only has 4 Tubes... so the first 4 missiles leave and the rest 8 one after another, making it almost impossible to hit a moving target with both missiles and lasers on the same spot (vital or a weapon you want to destroy).

The reduced cooldown on 2xSRM2 make them more usefull for this Hardpoint, because you fire a buck of 4 rockets that hit the desired spot, giving you the option to hammer the lasers instantly and your ac20. Wich makes the usage of your cooldowns more effektive and increasing your "burst"damage.

[Pastor Priest]

I like Derp's build. I run something similar, but with 2x SRM 4 and one less laser (that arm one needs it's own group and I struggle managing more than 3). I do have Artemis, but that was only a weight filler. I plan to drop that and upgrade to a 300, as the 280 is a little slow for my taste. For pure brawling, it hits like a Mac truck, and as others have stated, the SRM 4s fire in one volley versus the 2 of the 6s, and still give you power equal to an AC20. I'm not great with mine yet, but I had a Treb try to go toe-toe with me last night and I cored it in seconds.

[Zoccola]

Actually Wanderfalke NK the missiles fly in volley's of size = number of tubes. So you would get 1 double 4 missile volley, a 1 double 2 missile volley. I actually find it more effective to fire SRMS in spurts like that. Why?

1) SRM2s have tighter paths that SRM4s that have tighter paths than SRM6s.
2) Penetration is calculated by volley (well atleast my perception has been thus). So if 6 SRMS hit a target as a 6 missile volley, they all damage the armor and then internal. But if 6 SRMs hit at 4+2, there are chances that the 4 will strip the armor, and the 2 will be hitting only internals.

On my Trebuchet 7K (has 2 tubes on the right arm and 2 hardpoint slots), my 2 SRM6s fire as 3 two missile salvos. And I find they are much more effective.

Edited by Zoccola, 01 March 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Hedonism Robot]

I would drop the ER PPC for a medium laser and upgrade the SRMs to 4's.

[Skadi]

Or if you want a 1X you could run 1 large, 4 medium and a gauss with a standard 280
Alternate is 1 large, 4 medium, and a AC20 with a standard 280, the former is more heat efficent and multirole friendly.

[Monky]

Here's what I would go with;

CTF-2X

A little slower, and you get 12 AC20 shots and 12 SRM shots, so you better not waste them. For risky shots, use the ER Large.

When combo firing the AC20 and SRM's, it is heat neutral, meaning you can go wild with the ER large for quite a while, and even without the ER large you are able to pump 10DPS until ammo runs out. Definitely a risky build but you can make it work as a harasser with the laser, and finish anyone who gets close with other weapons once the enemy is weakened. Should be able to get 2-4 kills before ammo runs dry, with good fire control.

In all honesty though I don't think this variant is ideal for brawling, at least not with an AC20. It seems much better for mixed role, with SRM's, an AC2/5/10/Gauss or UAC, and medium/large lasers.

Edited by Monky, 01 March 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[Training Instructor]

Not a brawler, but an alternative build for the 2X. Play it like a sniper, but the trick is that anyone who gets close to you gets 30 points of SRM to the face.

CTF-2X

[Ephigy]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2a854ccd8cd3273

This is the 2X I've been using. It's the one that put an AC20 shot through Matt Newman's mech (I'm so ridiculously proud of that shot XD ) and I've been having a lot of fun with it.

I don't know if it's optimized at all but I love it. The Mlas give lights some pain when they're running circles around you and the SRMs do great damage alongside the AC20.

Edit: Just noticed it's a bit similar to MrDerp's build, but a bit slower and with added tech.

Edited by Ephigy, 05 March 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[MrDerp]

Wanderfalke NK, on 01 March 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

imo there is little to no sense using 2xsrm6 in the 2x while you have Lasers on board, because the Missilehardpoint only has 4 Tubes... so the first 4 missiles leave and the rest 8 one after another, making it almost impossible to hit a moving target with both missiles and lasers on the same spot (vital or a weapon you want to destroy).

The reduced cooldown on 2xSRM2 make them more usefull for this Hardpoint, because you fire a buck of 4 rockets that hit the desired spot, giving you the option to hammer the lasers instantly and your ac20. Wich makes the usage of your cooldowns more effektive and increasing your "burst"damage.

I actually agree, this is a good point. Except I would do 2x srm4 instead. They still fire together I think.

The left over tonnage should go to HS or engine probably.

[Beefer]

I run my 2X with 2xLL, AC20, SRM6 and SRM4. The LLs give you ~550m of effective range (anything beyond that the damage becomes negligible), and the AC20 and SRMs hurt a lot up close. The SRMs fire in two volleys with 10 missiles (no, I'm not sure why, but yes, I'm sure). Yes, the cd time is different, but it's rarely different enough that I don't fire both at once. Granted, it's a little slow - tops out around 62kph, without speed tweak, but it gives you a bit of everything and allows you to brawl pretty effectively.

Edited by Beefer, 05 March 2013 - 05:45 PM.