69 replies to this topic

[TheNarwhal]

RG Notch, on 10 March 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Which weapon did more total damage?

This has been addressed in other threads. Damage can be misleading. Sure it looks good when you top the charts on it but it doesn't necessarily mean you were awesome. ACs will do a lot more focus damage, killing a mech, using less damage over all than missiles, which do a lot of damage that is spread out over the mech. So, while you are doing more "damage" you are not necessarily killing them faster.

[Vahnn]

Imagine the situation.

LRM boat sees targets in the distance, gains lock, fires a volley. The target is alerted to incoming missiles and sees where they're coming from. Target blocks the volley by using a building as cover. The target then remains hidden, preventing a lock. Target makes his way to location of the LRM boat by moving from cover to cover, hauling arse through open spaces between cover. Target closes to within 180m of LRM boat. LRM boat dies. LRM boat did less than 50 damage.

I think it's over powered that a mech can equip enough LRMs to have a firepower rating of 90+ but can die without doing any damage. This needs to be fixed.

See what I did there?

[Moonsavage]

Op was piloting a Raven - the girlfriend was probably a lie.

[hammerreborn]

Kell Commander, on 10 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Let me give you an example of how wrong people are about LRM's:

I have 2 different trebuchets wih 2 LRM 15's. Based on my LRM 15 stats, I have played 44 matches with them firing almost 20k missiles. Due to people playing smart and using cover, less than 7k missiles have hit (I assume that AMS destroyed missiles also count towards misses). That is an accuracy rating of 33%.

Now my cataphract that has an ac 20, I have only played 11 matches with that. However, I have fired my ac 20 129 times and hit 95 times. Accuracy rating there is 74%.

Any questions?

Assuming your numbers are correct. At 7000 hits in 44 rounds, you did a total of 12600 damage, or 286 damage a round. With 74% accuracy with the ac/20, multiplying by 4 to get the 44 rounds only nets you 7600 damage, or 172 damage a round.

So even with crap accuracy because of the sheer number of missiles and the amount of damage each one does, you're actually far better with LRMs than the ac/20....so you point is...what exactly?

Edited by hammerreborn, 10 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[SPencil]

Vahnn, on 10 March 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

See what I did there?

[Mancu]

hammerreborn, on 10 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Assuming your numbers are correct. At 7000 hits in 44 rounds, you did a total of 12600 damage, or 286 damage a round. With 74% accuracy with the ac/20, multiplying by 4 to get the 44 rounds only nets you 7600 damage, or 172 damage a round.

So even with crap accuracy because of the sheer number of missiles and the amount of damage each one does, you're actually far better with LRMs than the ac/20....so you point is that if you were more accurate you would literally melt the other team?

As has been said over and over the AC damage is concentrated and thus far more effective. I'll use a AC over a Missile rack every time.

[RG Notch]

TheNarwhal, on 10 March 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

This has been addressed in other threads. Damage can be misleading. Sure it looks good when you top the charts on it but it doesn't necessarily mean you were awesome. ACs will do a lot more focus damage, killing a mech, using less damage over all than missiles, which do a lot of damage that is spread out over the mech. So, while you are doing more "damage" you are not necessarily killing them faster.

I'm not discussing that issue. I was specifically asking the person quoted which weapon did more total damage and if 12,600 or so damage is in any way shape or form equivalent to 2580. If 10k difference in damage doesn't matter oh well I guess then he has a point.
I'm not worried about the balance, it will get fixed and LRMS will get nerfed back to where they belong or everyone will just go back to using them again until they fix them. So it's just a matter of time. Enjoy it while it lasts if that's your thing.

[IG 88]

Snowblack, on 10 March 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Imagine the situation. I had my Raven 2x with 1 LRM 15 and loads of ammo.

So I wasplaying in Forest Colony when my GF calls me on the phone so i pik up the phone. Im standing still behind the frontline holding the phone with my left hand and spanning LRM with my right hand. IM an easy target its obvious... and im just shooting LRM and i did about 350 damage... yeah thats not much but i did it only 1 hand.

If i had my dragon with me and my GF would call me in the middle of the brawl id be toast in seconds or i could hit anything because i hand is tied down.

I dont like this easy way...same with SSRM2 but with that u have to get close atleast.

play a 6 lrm 5 with artemis catapult and say that again
if you say lrm take no skill after that then you have none

Edited by IG 88, 10 March 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Grumbling Coot]

Kell Commander, on 10 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Let me give you an example of how wrong people are about LRM's:

I have 2 different trebuchets wih 2 LRM 15's. Based on my LRM 15 stats, I have played 44 matches with them firing almost 20k missiles. Due to people playing smart and using cover, less than 7k missiles have hit (I assume that AMS destroyed missiles also count towards misses). That is an accuracy rating of 33%.

Now my cataphract that has an ac 20, I have only played 11 matches with that. However, I have fired my ac 20 129 times and hit 95 times. Accuracy rating there is 74%.

Any questions?

I mostly run my LRM15s on my TBT-3C with tag and artemis. I fire only when I've got a target that I know I have a good chance to hit. My accuracy: a little over 40%. AVERAGE damage per match: ~600. They do take some skill, but when you can line them up consistently they are devastating.

Edit: I also run a couple LRM5s on my CN9-A. I shoot at everything just to get some free damage and give people missile warnings as I close in. My accuracy: ~22%. The damage it does is pretty pathetic as well. This is more like what I would expect to get if I just stood in the back and spammed like the OP.

Edited by Grumbling Coot, 10 March 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Tikkamasala]

TheNarwhal, on 10 March 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

missiles, which do a lot of damage that is spread out over the mech.

Unfortunately that is not entirely correct anymore. I am not sure if that's a recent change as i haven't used lrms in the past, but the current lrm+artemis damage spread shows a sharp concentration on the center torso.

[Baltasar]

RG Notch, on 10 March 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I'm not discussing that issue. I was specifically asking the person quoted which weapon did more total damage and if 12,600 or so damage is in any way shape or form equivalent to 2580. If 10k difference in damage doesn't matter oh well I guess then he has a point.
I'm not worried about the balance, it will get fixed and LRMS will get nerfed back to where they belong or everyone will just go back to using them again until they fix them. So it's just a matter of time. Enjoy it while it lasts if that's your thing.

Said part is, missiles were nerfed down to 1.7 at one time, and you know what, every laughed at lrms then. No one carried AMS, incoming missiles were ignored because they were laughable. You can stand in the rain all day and brawl to your hearts content (at least that's what the qq seems to be wanting sometimes. Let me fight in the open and bash heads with the other mechs).

[Eric darkstar Marr]

No skill weapons..

ACs
PPCs
SRM
SSRM
any laser...
LRMs
MGs
Flamers
Guass

Ohh wait that covers all the weapons. Guess the opener must have a problem understanding the game and is just horrible, maybe you should stick to testing grounds and try and kill the 8 mechs there before they kill you... /s

[hammerreborn]

Mancu, on 10 March 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

As has been said over and over the AC damage is concentrated and thus far more effective. I'll use a AC over a Missile rack every time.

And has been said time and time again LRMs aren't for killing people, they are for making the enemy team stripped of armor before they get into range of the ac/20, and doing 300 damage to the other team from across the map is wonderful no matter how you look at it

[Erik Hollister]

hammerreborn, on 10 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Assuming your numbers are correct. At 7000 hits in 44 rounds, you did a total of 12600 damage, or 286 damage a round. With 74% accuracy with the ac/20, multiplying by 4 to get the 44 rounds only nets you 7600 damage, or 172 damage a round.

So even with crap accuracy because of the sheer number of missiles and the amount of damage each one does, you're actually far better with LRMs than the ac/20....so you point is...what exactly?

I don't know what his point was, but the point I'd make is that 286 damage spread all over a mech as compared to 172 damage that you punch holes through a mech with.... well, the AC20 looks pretty damned good. As an opponent to these 2 mechs, I think I'd take my chances vs the LRM boat than an AC20 boat. You get in range of the big guns, you are in trouble.

[Baltasar]

Tikkamasala, on 10 March 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Unfortunately that is not entirely correct anymore. I am not sure if that's a recent change as i haven't used lrms in the past, but the current lrm+artemis damage spread shows a sharp concentration on the center torso.

With artemis and TAG it does tighten the group up considerably. Artemis only works when the missile boat has LOS (and most of the time they have to use their own TAG) exposing themselves in the process. Don't always get the bonus from artemis because snipers are constantly keeping me moving. Elevation and movement of the enemy mech changes this quite a bit. I think testing grounds have made this worse in the since that mechs aren't moving fast at all and so you see a nice group spiral into the center of the mech with ease. (I noticed this in testing grounds and was amazed at all the CT hits) however in an actual match, watching my missiles against live opponents, my missiles were splashing the dolls a lot more and a lot were missing do to the mechs being able to get behind cover and faster mechs were able to dodge most of the missiles do to shear speed and angle of running (that is with Artemis and TAG in effect on the light mech). Although it would be nice to see if the devs have noticed anything on missiles and this last patch.

[Taemien]

Baltasar, on 10 March 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Said part is, missiles were nerfed down to 1.7 at one time, and you know what, every laughed at lrms then. No one carried AMS, incoming missiles were ignored because they were laughable. You can stand in the rain all day and brawl to your hearts content (at least that's what the qq seems to be wanting sometimes. Let me fight in the open and bash heads with the other mechs).

I remember that.

That was during rearm repair and I remember distinctly saying that I was removing AMS to save on ammo costs. Because it cost more to resupply AMS ammo, then it did to patch up the armor damage that having no AMS caused.

[Tikkamasala]

Baltasar, on 10 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

With artemis and TAG it does tighten the group up considerably. Artemis only works when the missile boat has LOS (and most of the time they have to use their own TAG) exposing themselves in the process. Don't always get the bonus from artemis because snipers are constantly keeping me moving. Elevation and movement of the enemy mech changes this quite a bit. I think testing grounds have made this worse in the since that mechs aren't moving fast at all and so you see a nice group spiral into the center of the mech with ease. (I noticed this in testing grounds and was amazed at all the CT hits) however in an actual match, watching my missiles against live opponents, my missiles were splashing the dolls a lot more and a lot were missing do to the mechs being able to get behind cover and faster mechs were able to dodge most of the missiles do to shear speed and angle of running (that is with Artemis and TAG in effect on the light mech). Although it would be nice to see if the devs have noticed anything on missiles and this last patch.

I've never been on the testing grounds and you get the artemis bonus even though you don't have LoS to the target during the complete flight time. It takes time for the missiles to spread out again after they spiral (do they spread out after you lose LoS?).
And there's a lot of "cover" that doesn't save you from lrms; i've seen them chase fast movers behind cover parallel to the ground or from a sharp angle downwards behind cover.

Edited by Tikkamasala, 10 March 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Sheraf]

LRM on most of my mech is mostly used for suppressing purpose. I fire them then follow up with my main laser weapons.

[QuantumButler]

Not entirely true OP.

LRMs need no skill when used against skilless opponents or fools trying to use their broken joysticks or N64 steering wheels [a surprisingly large amount of players, granted]

When used against people who can actually play gundam warrior online, they need a certain amount of skill investment if you ever want to deal any damage.

Mind you, it's not *much* skill, but it is there.

That said, their damage is too high for a weapon with such a low skill requirement and with recent changes to missile flightpaths with artemis, their damage should be dropped down to 1.5 per missile.

Edited by QuantumButler, 10 March 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[Bananenbaum]

If you fight against a 3year old, even a spoon becomes a deadly weapon.
Thats how LRM work in short ...