47 replies to this topic

[Hellboy561]

Apologies for linking the wrong piece of equipment in the OP, but i too would wander about waiting for a lock to let loose with the arty!! Would really come into its own in 12v12.

But yes the Arrow IV does need to be launched

[Cairbre]

I don't know- give the Arrow IV double the flight time of LRMS, an inability to track at all if TAG designation is lost, and I think it would really up the ante for spotters. Heck, interrupting the TAG beam with another mech to throw it off course would be possible, catching the Arrow and causing it to impact somewhere between the targeted mech and its rescuers.

Also, there is that whole 4 shots per ton issue- and the fact that a mountain will stop it just as surely as LRMs. If you can't reach cover or break TAG in 20 seconds or so... I kind of think you deserve to get an Arrow in the face. LRMs at max range already let most mechs moonwalk into cover. The Arrow should be laughably slower.

[Captain Stiffy]

Arrow, Long Tom, all that crap has one thing everyone is forgetting when they request it

It requires ANOTHER MECH WITH TAG

Not YOUR MECH

But another, entirely separate scout mech

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Captain Stiffy, on 11 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Arrow, Long Tom, all that crap has one thing everyone is forgetting when they request it

It requires ANOTHER MECH WITH TAG

Not YOUR MECH

But another, entirely separate scout mech

See I am all for that, give me Arrow IV and in group play (even pugs now mostly) with TAG it adds a that extra level of team work and play. It would help move the game away form the CoD mindset of still a lot of players.

[General Taskeen]

The Long Tom Artillery tank is in MW:LL. Super trollish to use. Just sit near main base, and lob artillery all over the map. If an unfortunate (and stupid) Light Mech stands still somewhere, and the Long Tom knows they are there, they will die in 1 direct hit. It even has a crude range finder if someone can't spot for you. I doubt the tank would would ever be made in MWO, but the Mech Mounted Long Tom cannon might, if they ever implement crit-splitting with the large guns.

[N0ni]

General Taskeen, on 11 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The Long Tom Artillery tank is in MW:LL. Super trollish to use. Just sit near main base, and lob artillery all over the map.

It did have a good lesson in facing these, never bunch up if you don't know what the enemy team is fielding... and when you know for certain Long Toms are being used, stay 100m away from all your allies.

[Zeh]

General Taskeen, on 11 March 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The Long Tom Artillery tank is in MW:LL. Super trollish to use. Just sit near main base, and lob artillery all over the map. If an unfortunate (and stupid) Light Mech stands still somewhere, and the Long Tom knows they are there, they will die in 1 direct hit. It even has a crude range finder if someone can't spot for you. I doubt the tank would would ever be made in MWO, but the Mech Mounted Long Tom cannon might, if they ever implement crit-splitting with the large guns.

Yes, it can actually turn an atlas' armor red all over from one direct hit. Always hated it in that game.

[Jakob Knight]

Actually, the TAG Arrow IV round was a guided round that hit like an AC/20 fired from the TAG unit. With the lock-on situation and double armor in MWO, this damage would have to be ramped up like that of other missile weapons, and it did not do AOE damage. Normal Arrow IV round functioned like other Artillery, doing AOE damage and not requiring lock ons or TAG at all (the missile was ballistic in tracking and guidance, like an SRM with a high-altitude arc to come down from above.

As I noted in the recent "Ask the Devs" (and was promptly ignored as so many other worthwhile questions were), Artillery has always been listed as one of the weapon types that mechs would be able to mount, under the 'Projectile' catagory (though it seems likely they changed 'missile' to 'projectile' at some point as a catch-all) http://mwomercs.com/...warfare-part-i/ . So, we know it will be put in at some point, and Arrow IV is the only mech-mounted artillery system (which is why it was developed).

[Phantom360]

Well considering the size and power only the most sturdy of mechs can hold it e.g behemoth II which I don't think we're going to see for a while but like one of the recent commenters said battletech tech manuals say the long Tom is a very powerful gun mostly mounted on fortrasess, city defencese and rail lines specially designed for it so like I seid earlier only the most stiffened and sturdy 100 ton mechs which are more like artillery/sniper platforms that hardly move can mount/use it whithout needing to be crouched against a massive stabiliser/structure

[Phantom360]

Well considering the size and power only the most sturdy of mechs can hold it e.g behemoth II which I don't think we're going to see for a while but like one of the recent commenters said battletech tech manuals say the long Tom is a very powerful gun mostly mounted on fortrasess, city defencese and rail lines specially designed for it so like I seid earlier only the most stiffened and sturdy 100 ton mechs which are more like artillery/sniper platforms that hardly move can mount/use it whithout needing to be crouched against a massive stabiliser/structure

[Kommisar]

In my dreams.

I'm an arty guy. I love sending shells and rockets over long distances. Pre-sighting firing positions. Or just using my instincts to free sight the elevation and bearing to get the shells where they need to go. It's the longest ranged sniper weapon you can use! Back in my BF2/FH days working with some proper FOs, we could put shots onto moving jeeps across the map. With a good spot, I could even slot shots into windows with a 105mm.

AOE weapons would really change the current tactical meta of this game. Right now, there is no great reason to not cluster together. With ECM, there is every reason to clump up and walk like a 1800's rifle line into battle. Being able to drop some BOOM would be a nice deterrent for getting to cozy with your lance mates. The consumables may do that; we'll see. My worry is that with 6 to 10 seconds of delivery time, inability to coordinate Time-on-Target with multiple launches, and instant warning to the target that rounds are over, that actually hitting anything is going to be like finding a Goliath in game.

I'm going to miss being able to predict my targets movements and send them welcoming gifts.

I understand the need to not make this game Arty-Online. Mechs need to be the primary weapon of combat and if pure arty spam should be avoided. But, I would like to see it be a threat. Especially if I am paying for each barrage. As it is, I suspect (don't know, could be wrong) that the use of the arty/air-strike will be to make mechs move a bit. It will not be the threat to break-up the mech-packs. Will not even be useful in breaking up the Mexican-Standoffs we get on Caustic or Frozen City in Assault. Backing up 30 meters is not a big deal.

[SquareSphere]

Dead Eye 01, on 11 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

It did have a good lesson in facing these, never bunch up if you don't know what the enemy team is fielding... and when you know for certain Long Toms are being used, stay 100m away from all your allies.

This guy gets it. The LT was implemented in MWLL to breaking siege line mentality. Specifically, LRM/ARROW spam that required an active radar to work, thus painting a giant "drop artillery shells here" on themselves. The mech hard counter was to go passive, spread out and hit the flanks. Thus forcing mechs to play a more mobile playstyle. ie Scouts had to find LT and coordinate flanking maneuvers to exploit holes in the defense and deep strike the LTs.

True hard counter to LTs were air assets. If the enemy put more assets to anti air watch, it made them even more susceptible to mobile skirmishing tactics.

[General Taskeen]

Dead Eye 01, on 11 March 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

It did have a good lesson in facing these, never bunch up if you don't know what the enemy team is fielding... and when you know for certain Long Toms are being used, stay 100m away from all your allies.

Well, I have no problem with it in MW:LL. Its fun to face and use. And yes, its good for breaking a defensive line or a siege, which is cool in that game.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 March 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[TexAce]

I dont know if it is canon by I would like a massive cannon I can only fire when I'm not moving, meaning I have to dig myself into the ground to withstand the backfire. it would require all critslots in my side-torsos and only be equipped on mechs above medium. THAT would be cool (waiting for the hardcore-TT-naysayers)

Edited by TexAss, 11 March 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[The Trice]

Jules Gonzales, on 11 March 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Devs need to eat too etc.

I thought this is what they have been doing for the past month

[Hellboy561]

Loving the discussion.

I just think that having the consumables drop smoke where you strike is about to come in makes it a bit worthless imho. But a Mech mounted artillery piece would really throw a spanner in the works when you get forward information on your targets and can rain death upon them.

Yes it could only be mounted on the Heavy and Assault chassis, but thats the idea! The Heavy and Assault mechs are supposed to be carrying the big guns! Who rememberes the AC20 Raven Flocks from Closed Beta??

This would give Mechwarriors a huge choice when setting up their Mechs, true it would only come into its own in Premade groups where you can co-ordinate strikes with your teamates, but it definatly would mix things up a little!

Any why do i keep seeing "its not canon" or "it doesn't work with the lore" once again, AC20 Raven? Gausscat? Splatapult? These are all non canonical builds so why can't i have my Long Tom?

Edited by Hellboy561, 11 March 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Jakob Knight]

Hellboy561, on 11 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Any why do i keep seeing "its not canon" or "it doesn't work with the lore" once again, AC20 Raven? Gausscat? Splatapult? These are all non canonical builds so why can't i have my Long Tom?

Considering how ECM is in the game, nothing is certain when it comes to translation to MWO. However, the Long Tom was a -huge- system, one that took too much space to fit into the available space of any battlemech. Even smaller artillery such as Thumpers and Snipers were all but impossible to fit, which is why the Arrow IV was such a breakthrough. Here was a system tailor-made for battlemech mounting, even though it required specialized redesign and took up half the battlemech (all of the side torso and one arm). Until Arrow IV, artillery were restricted to vehicles, which could be rebuilt to carry them without all the internal bracing and flexibility a battlemech's frame requires.

Again, we know that artillery is coming, but how the devs actually make it work in 'their' Battletech is not known. We'll have to see (though since they are grouped in the same weapon catagory as Missiles, we can make an educated guess they will be a form of missile launcher-type weapon, and require missile mounts to fit).

[Natasha Kerensky]

Maps not big enough for weapons like this.

[Elessar]

TexAss, on 11 March 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I dont know if it is canon by I would like a massive cannon I can only fire when I'm not moving, meaning I have to dig myself into the ground to withstand the backfire. it would require all critslots in my side-torsos and only be equipped on mechs above medium. THAT would be cool (waiting for the hardcore-TT-naysayers)

The Long Tom Cannon to which this thread refers to need 15 critslots.
With other words, it would not only occupy all critslots in one side torso, but also 3 critslots in your arms.

Which is why I doubt that such a weapon will get implemented on our battlefield mechs. I doubt that MWO at the moment allows for active single components that stretch over several hit locations (i.e. active components, which is unlike the inactive filler components which you get allocated with endosteel and FF armor).
And I doubt that the devs will want to spend development times into enabling this, considering that AFAIK only the Long Tom Cannon and the Arrow IV need this.

Edited by Elessar, 11 March 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Elessar, on 11 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

The Long Tom Cannon to which this thread refers to need 15 critslots.
With other words, it would not only occupy all critslots in one side torso, but also 3 critslots in your arms.

Which is why I doubt that such a weapon will get implemented on our battlefield mechs. I doubt that MWO at the moment allows for active single components that stretch over several hit locations (i.e. active components, which is unlike the inactive filler components which you get allocated with endosteel and FF armor).
And I doubt that the devs will want to spend development times into enabling this, considering that AFAIK only the Long Tom Cannon and the Arrow IV need this.

Technically the AC/20, LB 20-X, and Heavy Gauss can do the same. If they added a Stock King Crab, for instance, they would have to enable crit-splitting since that is how it is on the record sheet. Depending on where someone splits it, if a weapon is split between the arm and torso, there is the disadvantage of the arm being locked into place.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 March 2013 - 07:10 PM.