Well, it's a general consensus that the LB-X is not the gun it's supposed to be. Until we get multiple ammo types, we're stuck with the current lackluster cluster rounds.
Since they do spread damage, they should receive a damage buff like all other spread damage weapons received.
What will differenciate the many versions of the LB-X is the number of pellets shot:
LB-X 2 = 2 pellets
LB-X 5 = 5 pellets
and so on. LB-X 20 fires a scary 20 pellets
Each pellets should deal 1.5 dmg if not more. If pellets aren't buffed more than that, then spread must be 50% tighter so the gun can be used at longer range. Don't forget the max range is supposed to be 540M on that gun...
edit: After some thought, spread must be tighten a lot, even if the damage per pellets is buffed.
The way the LB-X is currently programmed, it can't make any use of its enhanced range (which is supposed to be its advantage).
And second, being a spread weapon with inherent inaccuracy, like an LRM or an SRM, the pellets must be increased in damage.
TT;
LRM-10 - 1 Damage Per Missile (10 Missiles)
SRM-6 - 2 Damage Per Missile (6 Missiles)
LB 10-X - 1 Damager Per Pellet (10 Pellets)
(Also a LB-X Cluster has the same enhanced range as a Slug)
MWO;
LRM-10 - 1.8 Damage Per Missile (10 Missiles)
SRM-6 - 2.5 Damage Per Missile (6 Missiles)
LB 10-X - 1 Damage Per Pellet (10 Pellets)
The SRM-6 firing just 6 missiles beats the LB 10-X with 2.5 damage per missile and splash damage with 15 potential damage + splash. An LRM-10 firing, where all missiles hit for 1.8 damage per missile has 18 damage potential. Sad indeed.
LB 10-X is completely ineffective at competing with other weapons in the same or similar range group (Ultra AC/5, AC/5, LL, PPC, etc.) with poor damage output due to inaccuracy/spread.
Therefore the cluster 'spread' needs to be reduced drastically for the range advantage, either by keeping the conical shaped spread or giving it a cylindrical shaped spread. And its damage needs to be increased anywhere between 1.2 and 1.5.
The one problem with adding slug rounds to LBX is that the AC/10 will pretty much stop existing altogether...although then again, virtually nobody uses AC/10s anyways. I can almost guarantee that virtually all LBX users will just load up on slug ammo and never equip scattershot rounds.
The pellets should do more damage the further away it is from the barrel. For as long as the LB10-X can do a pinpoint shot on one component, the damage should remain at 1.0. When the spread starts to affect it to the point where the damage can no longer be concentrated, the damage should increase up until its maximum range to compensate for the spread.
I have no hard math, but doing up to 2.0 damage per pellet near/at max range would probably even it out and make it be worth more than an AC/2.
LBX was useful in TT as a crit seeker because a crit was a crit was a crit. You could take out an weapon, blow up ammo, or cripple an engine with a single pellet.
Because of how crits work in MWO the LBX has kinda lost it's purpose.
Definitely needs a damage increase. 1.5 per pellet would be 15 total damage putting it between the AC/20 and the AC/10, damage spread would keep it balanced.
Also, the damage mechanics of SRMs and the LBX need to be switched. Right now SRMs are acting like LBXs in that the 2.5 damage of each missile is spread out in a small radius. Should be pinpoint.
TLDR: Tighten the spread, boost the damage to 1.5, and make the pellets spread out their damage in a small radius to compensate for buffs.
The one problem with adding slug rounds to LBX is that the AC/10 will pretty much stop existing altogether...although then again, virtually nobody uses AC/10s anyways. I can almost guarantee that virtually all LBX users will just load up on slug ammo and never equip scattershot rounds.
Many a posts ago, I suggested if PGI wants to keep the AC/10 with an advantage, if the LB 10-X (and any future LB-X cannon added) were ever brought up to the competitive balanced level, they should simply make LB-X guns fire slightly slower.
Another thing is that taking slug/cluster means there is less room for reach, since they both weigh 1 ton.
With the last patch the spread has been reduced. Unfortunately it's still not enough to make the weapon viable, an AC 10 or UAC5 are better.
We desperatedly need the solid slug. I'd be fine even if solid rounds would be less rounds per ton (like 12 vs the usual 15 for the AC 10) and that I even need two different ammunitions loaded to change the fire mode (eg: 2 tons of solid and 1 ton of spread).
I'd be even finer if the solid slug does splash damage, not addressing a single section with the whole 10 dmg, therefore resulting slightly less effective than the AC 10 round.. but the lbx weights less and shoots farther, therefore i think it would be fair.
But as it stands now, it's RIDICULOUS that the max range is 540m whereas the AC 10 has 450. It's a plain joke, TT or not.
Edited by John MatriX82, 11 March 2013 - 07:53 AM.
The LB-X Autocannon is an advanced variation of the standard Autocannon. Its most notable feature is its ability to fire cluster munitions.
The cluster round fragments in flight, peppering the target with submunitions. The cannon is able to punch through an opponent's armor with standard rounds, and then fire cluster rounds to increase the chance of scoring a critical hit on a target's internal systems. The LB-X's flak-like 'shotgun' effect also makes it an effective and deadly weapon against AeroSpace Fighters, VTOLs and Infantry.
LB-X autocannons cannot use the special munitions developed by the AFFS, and cannot be combined with Ultra, Rotary, or Light Autocannon technology.
The round is suppose to fragment while in flight. This is so that more pellts hit the target.
The round is suppose to fragment while in flight. This is so that more pellts hit the target.
That is how the TT game described it. But when it comes to actual in game physics and mechanics, you can't really design it that way.
Sadly, the LB 10-X gets screwed. It is comperable to the current LRM5 but does 1 point more damage, weighs 5.5x more, takes up 5 more criticals, isn't guided, can't fire indirectly, and has its damage reduced at half the range of the LRM. And, it can't use light weight electronic equipment to tighten the spread. Yeah, let me use some of that!!! But hey, it has an increased chance to crit once you scrape off your target's armor.
+1
The quick notice solution would be to tighten the spread and increase the damage per pellet.
In the long run, I'd prefer different ammo types.
The LBX should have a lower roF (more cooldown) than the AC/10, so the LBC would have the advantage of range, total weight and heat while firing slug as well as flexibility due to ability of using cluster ammo.
Of course the RoF should be generally increased for the AC/10.
E.g. cooldown AC/10 would be then 2,00 or 2,25 --> LBX than 2,5 or 3,00.
I not aware of the rules in TT, but shouldn't a weapon like this have a potential knockdown capability? The lighter the mech the higer the probability etc.
If they added slug rounds but changed LBX ammo to weigh 2 tons, take 2 crits and contain 16 slugs and 16 clusters there would still be a reason for the vanilla ac/10 to exist. Some people just won't bother with being forced to take all that extra ammo.
PanchoTortilla, on 11 March 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:
If they added slug rounds but changed LBX ammo to weigh 2 tons, take 2 crits and contain 16 slugs and 16 clusters there would still be a reason for the vanilla ac/10 to exist. Some people just won't bother with being forced to take all that extra ammo.
it won't happen, cause it messes with stock builds
The one problem with adding slug rounds to LBX is that the AC/10 will pretty much stop existing altogether...although then again, virtually nobody uses AC/10s anyways. I can almost guarantee that virtually all LBX users will just load up on slug ammo and never equip scattershot rounds.
AC10 is a legacy weapon in all other MW games, and the tabletop. It's the same with the other normal ACs. They're worthless, heavy, and ineffective.
PanchoTortilla, on 11 March 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:
If they added slug rounds but changed LBX ammo to weigh 2 tons, take 2 crits and contain 16 slugs and 16 clusters there would still be a reason for the vanilla ac/10 to exist. Some people just won't bother with being forced to take all that extra ammo.
No one should take AC10 to begin with, and once we get more UACs, they'll die out, anyway. They're completely worthless. So worthless, they're only still in CBT because there are older mechs that field them.
Nothing personnal, but from what I could get from your posts, you're pretty much the most notorious min/maxer on these forums and I don't want the game to degenerate into that...
Any build you deem ineffective, you call it out and say the pilots are potential idiots...
I mean, if you were a bit more open minded towards game balance, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But, are you still using your D-DC with a Gauss and 3 SRMs on every match?
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