149 replies to this topic

[Greyfyl]

Put one cap location in the center of the map - in the open and have it not activate until 5 minutes (or more) into the game. Removes the temptation to base cap and still leaves a way out of a game where one lone light decides he would rather hide than let the game end.

[Merky Merc]

Greyfyl, on 11 March 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

Put one cap location in the center of the map - in the open and have it not activate until 5 minutes (or more) into the game. Removes the temptation to base cap and still leaves a way out of a game where one lone light decides he would rather hide than let the game end.

Or have it be a sweet fort, so the cappers don't get gang banged by LRMs should they not be in ECM mechs. It's a hard knock life for mediums with no cover >.>

[LittleGrim]

Shumabot, on 11 March 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Without any sort of pro circuit it's kind of a joke for someone to be a competitive player.

com·pet·i·tive
/kəmˈpetətiv/AdjectiveOf,
relating to, or characterized by competition.
Having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others: "she had a competitive streak".

Just because it doesn't have an esports profile does not mean there is lack of competition. I suggest you check
http://www.youtube.c...hsandwichpatrol which was a community run tourny over many months with many of the best players in it. No cheese, no super vets just skill. I've played a fair bit of S2 and ended up inside the top 1000 whenever I focus on it, even ended up at a rank of 568 once and I have played some of the guys in those videos and I am not even close to being able to beat them.

[Shumabot]

Cap points should give some sort of in game benefit to the team that caps, but they shouldn't be the point of the assault game type. If they're going to be the entire point of it than there should only be one cap point and the gameplay should be symmetrical.

Having two game ending capture points in a game where most players are in mechs that are slow and ungainly is asinine. It just means that everyone ignores the objective unless they're running a team made of mostly lights wherein they'll win without a shot being fired.

LittleGrim, on 11 March 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

com·pet·i·tive
/kəmˈpetətiv/AdjectiveOf,
relating to, or characterized by competition.
Having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others: "she had a competitive streak".

Just because it doesn't have an esports profile does not mean there is lack of competition. I suggest you check
http://www.youtube.c...hsandwichpatrol which was a community run tourny over many months with many of the best players in it. No cheese, no super vets just skill. I've played a fair bit of S2 and ended up inside the top 1000 whenever I focus on it, even ended up at a rank of 568 once and I have played some of the guys in those videos and I am not even close to being able to beat them.

If you're going to bring in your credentials from somewhere else make sure they mean something. By the dictionary term I'm a competitive TF2 player and that similarly does nothing for me here.

[Darkfire66]

Enig, on 11 March 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

I practically spilled all the spaghetti on my keyboard when I read 'Competitive Shogun 2 Player'

people

Shumabot, on 11 March 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Without any sort of pro circuit it's kind of a joke for someone to be a competitive player.

Back when Shogun 2 peaked I was one of the top 25 players in ranked matches. Understanding that the parallels between the gameplay being dragged down by the people who will just sit and let the enemy attack them degraded the experience, I hope people will understand why capping is a threat. Do you really want matches where neither team leaves their position, and they got to time with 1 or 2 kills?

I'm a competitive player in this as well.

Pro Tour means nothing.

Why do anything if not doing it as well as you can? I didn't say I was a professional, I said I was competitive.

To me, that means playing to win, against the best people you can find.

That's fun, that's challenging.

[LittleGrim]

Sorry if I came across as trying to stroke my epeen, but I was only trying to make the point that there are competitive players in S2, just not as high profile in other games.

As far as the discussion about capping, I agree with the guys that came up with the idea of having a certain amount of mech's dead before a cap is possible being a workable solution.

edit; If you compare World of Tanks to MWO (as they have similar gamemodes), if one team neglects to leave some defense a cap happens. I feel the smaller team sizes here in MWO plays a part in these "base rushes". Once we have 12v12 I hope that this game mode will evolve a little as teams will be able to allocate players to base defense without severely gimping their offense.

Edited by LittleGrim, 11 March 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Darkfire66]

Shumabot, on 11 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Cap points should give some sort of in game benefit to the team that caps, but they shouldn't be the point of the assault game type. If they're going to be the entire point of it than there should only be one cap point and the gameplay should be symmetrical.

Having two game ending capture points in a game where most players are in mechs that are slow and ungainly is asinine. It just means that everyone ignores the objective unless they're running a team made of mostly lights wherein they'll win without a shot being fired.



If you're going to bring in your credentials from somewhere else make sure they mean something. By the dictionary term I'm a competitive TF2 player and that similarly does nothing for me here.

Not at all, it means that if you choose to abandon your base to find some perfectly defensible position, you deserve to lose.

You need to have an incentive besides kills to make this anything other than a campfest.

Also, if you can find examples of something that TF2 does well that is applicable to MWO, you should use your experiences to help generate discussion on ways to improve it. Maybe MWO should have hats.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I fail to understand why we cant have a mode where the objective is to kill the other team.
Instead of cap points or cap base ********
Whats next capture the flag?

[Darkfire66]

Because all that will do is lead to people sitting behind the best cover they can find, not moving.

[Severus Baggins Kerensky]

Now imagine Shogun 2 has base capture. Why would you use anything but cavalry so you could run around the enemy and capture their base?

The problem is not that there's base capture. The problem is that it's too fast to do it and most mechs are not fast enough to get there. Base capture is made so you can't hide all match long. It's supposed to make mechs fight. Instead on many occasions it made fights less frequent.

If anything, they should make it so there's only 1 base: long capture timer depending on how many mechs the enemy has left as well as how many mechs capturing the base. Place the base in the middle of a kill zone.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

What Im getting absolutely sick of is being in Conquest and losing because the 3L left on the other team is capping all the points and the team Im on are too stupid to realize zerging doesnt work

[Noobzorz]

Chavette, on 11 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Deathmatches:

Because Base Capture Game Mode is Way Too Complicated For The Average Gamer in 2013

Even though I don't think deathmatch would work well in MWO, I have to say that this is ********. You're arguing from some douchey puritanical hardcore gamer perspective. Well here's the deal slick.

Deathmatch is the original. Years before quake was even a thing, games were about killing other players and not much else. If anything, the average gamer has gotten more sophisticated.

So if you have nothing intelligent to add, and the only thing you're going to do is behave like some sort of hardcore/casual softcore ******* child, why don't you just do us all a favor and posting absolutely nothing instead.

[LittleGrim]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 11 March 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Now imagine Shogun 2 has base capture. Why would you use anything but cavalry so you could run around the enemy and capture their base?

The problem is not that there's base capture. The problem is that it's too fast to do it and most mechs are not fast enough to get there. Base capture is made so you can't hide all match long. It's supposed to make mechs fight. Instead on many occasions it made fights less frequent.



If anything, they should make it so there's only 1 base: long capture timer depending on how many mechs the enemy has left as well as how many mechs capturing the base. Place the base in the middle of a kill zone.

There is base capture in S2, in the form of Dojo's , when a player holds all of them a 10min countdown starts forcing the player who is camping to take one of these away from the opposing player or lose by default.

[Fieldmarshal]

Not sure why people are complaining about a more dynamic game with a extra layer of depth. Besides, the same people don't complain if their team was on the winning side...gg's tossed around for everyone.

Edited by Fieldmarshal, 11 March 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[Darkfire66]

Severus Baggins Kerensky, on 11 March 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Now imagine Shogun 2 has base capture. Why would you use anything but cavalry so you could run around the enemy and capture their base?

The problem is not that there's base capture. The problem is that it's too fast to do it and most mechs are not fast enough to get there. Base capture is made so you can't hide all match long. It's supposed to make mechs fight. Instead on many occasions it made fights less frequent.


If anything, they should make it so there's only 1 base: long capture timer depending on how many mechs the enemy has left as well as how many mechs capturing the base. Place the base in the middle of a kill zone.

I think many of you are mostly people who play with pugs, because most of the time, having to make decisions regarding capturing or responding to those threats are exciting and part of the challenge. They give light and fast medium mechs a bigger threat as well.

I can tell you aren't a Shogun player lol.

[BlackAbbot]

The solution to all the base caps is... wait for it... MORE BASE CAPS!

No seriously, hear me out!

Instead of trying to remove the spawn bases and force players to just play TDM or to fight over a single central base, add a THIRD central base, equidistant from the two spawn bases.

Players from both teams are now forced into a situation where they must not only advance rapidly to the battle that will inevitably develop in the centre, if they don't allocate forces to defend their own base and/or attempt to cap the enemy base they're likely to lose via cap that way instead. It's like Conquest only without the tedium!

I would probably suggest a slow cap tick on the central base to prevent people just piling one ECM Light in there ASAP and then relying on long range Assaults and Heavies to pound anything that tried to come stop the cap with impunity, but given the shorter travel time between the two points that should still work out to roughly the same cap time in total for either the centre or the enemy base.

[Jimskiavic]

I put my suggestion into a Poll: http://mwomercs.com/...echs-remaining/

[themoob]

Competitive Total War players have always weirded me out. It'd be like being a competitive penalty shooter in basketball. You're only playing half the game.

[Darkfire66]

themoob, on 11 March 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Competitive Total War players have always weirded me out. It'd be like being a competitive penalty shooter in basketball. You're only playing half the game.

Haha, how do you figure?

It's more like, playing in the NBA, vs. playing at the YMCA.

[themoob]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Haha, how do you figure?

It's more like, playing in the NBA, vs. playing at the YMCA.

Half (or more) of the game is on the campaign map.

Buuut I'm just a history purist I suppose, and vanilla TW makes me angry.