148 replies to this topic

[Lyrik]

Thuzel, on 12 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Honestly, if they'd been paying attention they wouldn't have even tried some of the things they did (3rd person anyone?).

They rolled back consumables BEFORE they were even ingame! 3rd Person didn't even got so far than consumables . And you claim that they don't listen to us? WTF????

I really should stop reading the forum. And caring about a game where I have to drop with or against such people like you.

Edited by Lyrik, 12 March 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Thuzel, on 12 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

QFT.

I think one of PGI's greatest blunders is that they don't have a feel for their audience. They seem to be just moving along according to their own plan without really listening to their customers. Every now and then they get something right, but more often than not they just do what they were going to do regardless of what we think or feel. Look at how much uproar had to be created before they rolled back consumables, for example.

Honestly, if they'd been paying attention they wouldn't have even tried some of the things they did (3rd person anyone?).

If you want to participate in a canon IP then your priorities have to stick with that line of thinking. While PGI has deviated at times (for some reason or another, yet not one I care to debate) I think their line of thinking has been to give a little slack here and there to accommodate our beliefs, anyone remember the announcement of the ECM Jenner, or the latest debacle of MC coolant flush? Those are cases of PGI listening to their community.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 12 March 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Livewyr]

Frisk, on 12 March 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

If we gear this game to the lowest common denominator then we'll end up with garbage. ECM is a pillar of this game, deal with it.

PGi is doing just fine, I personally like the fact they don't get on their knees and start blowing all these whiners.

If you can't make a logical argument and a suggestion to fix the percieved problem then QFT.

*gawk* really? (Besides the fact that MWO "Guardian ECM" doesn't even exist.)

When Artemis was first released it was "a pillar of this game" and yet it was changed, drastically..and immediately.

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Also.. try some of those links in the OP... Reading comprehension is good to have in forums.

Edited by Livewyr, 12 March 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Livewyr, on 12 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

*gawk* really? (Besides the fact that MWO "Guardian ECM" doesn't even exist.)

When Artemis was first released it was "a pillar of this game" and yet it was changed, drastically..

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Also.. try some of those links in the OP... Reading comprehension is good to have in forums.

It was changed because of coding issues, not because of IP design issues...

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 12 March 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Livewyr]

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Actually... Screw you. If you can't fkin read, I'm not going to bother with you.

KuruptU4Fun, on 12 March 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

It was changed because of coding issues, not because of IP design issues...

No.. it was working fine.. modified flight path, true 35% accuracy boost.. and having the 2,0 missile damage.. all "working as intended"

[KuruptU4Fun]

Livewyr, on 12 March 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

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Actually... Screw you. If you can't fkin read, I'm not going to bother with you.

Thought you left dude, but since you're staying...

[Livewyr]

KuruptU4Fun, on 12 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Thought you left dude, but since you're staying...

Nice attempt.. but you should read the OP again (if not for the first time)

You look like an *****.

[Thuzel]

Lyrik, on 12 March 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

They rolled back consumables BEFORE they were even ingame! 3rd Person didn't even got so far than consumables . And you claim that they don't listen to us? WTF????

I really should stop reading the forum. And caring about a game where I have to drop with or against such people like you.

As well they should have, did you see what happened when they made the announcement??? It wasn't a little bit of angry, it was a LOT of angry. The forums were literally clogged with people crying out against it. But what did they do? Respond right away? Nope. They started going through and locking, deleting, and merging threads. They were trying to bury the discontent. And then, when they'd tried all that and it just didn't stop coming, only then did they decide to reverse course.

Yes, I say they don't listen nearly as well as they should. They try what they want, regardless of the community, and only when the tidal wave reaches epic proportions do they do anything else. They've done it too many times to count.

[Felbombling]

MaddMaxx, on 12 March 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Just because a few folks didn't/don't like something that was added, doesn't mean the Dev should get less time to collect their Data and then make decisions based on that, rather than the incessant QQ'ing of those few, who would seem to have a pre-disposed disposition for it.

I can agree with that, but the Dev team seems to miss the mark an awful lot right out of the gate. The ECM issue has been going on for months now, and from Day 1 many, many players were of the opinion that a 1.5 ton piece of equipment should not be able to do everything it was able to do. I think the OP is asking why they had no forethought in this situation.

Were the extension of the TAG laser range, the NARC tweaks and the PPC disruption already in the planning stages before the ECM was introduced, or were they a response to the obvious power of the ECM? If they were already in the planning stages, why introduce the ECM before the planned changes were in place? To collect data on player frustration, I imagine?

I give the Dev team the benefit of the doubt, with the understanding that they have a vision in mind for the end product of this game. Having said that, I have seen them play whack-a-mole since early in the Closed Beta, and it is worrisome.

[Thuzel]

KuruptU4Fun, on 12 March 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

anyone remember the announcement of the ECM Jenner, or the latest debacle of MC coolant flush? Those are cases of PGI listening to their community.

I'm not saying they should stick to canon above all else, and I never have. I want a usable, fun, online game, and sticking to the established TT rules certainly wasn't going to give us that. They needed to change some things, no arguing that.

What I'm saying is that they don't listen until much too late. Those examples you listed are the poster children for that. They go through and try literally everything else before actually listening to us. They try to delete posts and threads. They try to ignore it. They try to do anything they can except listening. Only when they've exhausted all other possibilities do they listen to their customers.

[Lyrik]

Thuzel, on 12 March 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

As well they should have, did you see what happened when they made the announcement??? It wasn't a little bit of angry, it was a LOT of angry. The forums were literally clogged with people crying out against it. But what did they do? Respond right away? Nope. They started going through and locking, deleting, and merging threads. They were trying to bury the discontent. And then, when they'd tried all that and it just didn't stop coming, only then did they decide to reverse course.

Yes, I say they don't listen nearly as well as they should. They try what they want, regardless of the community, and only when the tidal wave reaches epic proportions do they do anything else. They've done it too many times to count.

Of course they are trying different approaches. That's their job. Looking what the players wants and what not. So they listened!!! Aaargh

And merging threads, deleting, locking is a normal procedure in maintaining a forum . It is really hard to get good feedback when the forum is full of loosers, noobs, trolls, whiners, a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s. etc ..

Fact is : they listened. They didn't incorporate several designs. If you don't like them for trying... yeah thats your problem.

[Balfor]

Livewyr, on 12 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Pro-ECM Community: Unable to prove that it isn't broken, or knows that it is broken but likes

Unable to prove that it isn´t broken? Why should someone prove that something is not broken? You have to prove that it is broken...and you will not be able to do that cause ECM works properly when the Dev´s (PGI) state it is.

Another Whiner.... I hope PGI won´t break in to all this whining.

So: Want some Cheese and can I have your Things when you quit?

Edited by Balfor, 12 March 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Thuzel, what your asking is for them to spend literally millions of dollars just in the concept/ design phase. Let alone changes needed to actually get a working prototype coded and in testing phases. Which is exactly what we as beta testers are supposed to do.

PGI does need to look at other IP creations outside of the TT rules, if they do then they simply aren't telling us about it. The reason they delete (I believe for the most part) threads is because they are simply troll threads or those particular issues have been debated to exhaustion anyways...

[Sierra19]

I'm not trying to be a fanboy here, but you people DO realize that this game is barely a year old, and has been in open beta only a few months, right? Everyone seems to be acting like this game has been around for 3-4 years, and the devs are idiots who don't care about what we think. Does the game have problems? Most certainly, but you can't take the meat cleaver solution by lopping off parts of the game you don't like. These things take time to fully research, and implement fixes CORRECTLY, so you don't end up imbalancing another aspect of the game, by "fixing" something that is currently broken. Everyone realizes that the devs are looking into the ECM issue, and there are other things that will be addressed, in due time. There's a fine balance between fixing balance issues, and providing new content. How many complaint threads would there be, if the devs stopped working on content for a few months, to fix some other issues (LRM's, ECM, MM)? People would be srcreaming til they were blue in the face about the lack of new content, and how boring the game is without anything new.

[Thuzel]

Lyrik, on 12 March 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Of course they are trying different approaches. That's their job. Looking what the players wants and what not. So they listened!!! Aaargh

And merging threads, deleting, locking is a normal procedure in maintaining a forum . It is really hard to get good feedback when the forum is full of loosers, noobs, trolls, whiners, a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s. etc ..

Fact is : they listened. They didn't incorporate several designs. If you don't like them for trying... yeah thats your problem.

No, deleting and locking threads that were actually discussing the issues reasonably isn't listening. In fact, it's the exact opposite. But I suppose someone who thinks we're "loosers, noobs, trolls, ..." etc wouldn't see it that way.

[Balfor]

Lyrik, on 12 March 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

And merging threads, deleting, locking is a normal procedure in maintaining a forum . It is really hard to get good feedback when the forum is full of loosers, noobs, trolls, whiners, a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s. etc ..

Fact is : they listened. They didn't incorporate several designs. If you don't like them for trying... yeah thats your problem.

WORD!

[Anastasius]

I dunno ECM seems fine to me. Lots of whiners and not alot of adapt and overcome.

[Alois Hammer]

Noobzorz, on 12 March 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

Command chair is promised for ECM.

Yeah, we've heard that [REDACTED] before, too.

Myself, I've become convinced that the folks at PGI are rather like politics here in America- two factions, dedicated to blindly opposing anything "the other guys" favor, taking turns running things. And of course whichever one's in charge at the moment spends most of their time trying to "undo" everything "the other guys" did last time they were in charge and all the while nobody wins, but the outsiders (in this case, we the players) get nothing but "it, and good and hard."

Reckon I'll check back 'round Thanksgiving and see what's left.

-shrug-

[Tombstoner]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 12 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Good player = Make whatever mechanics in the game work.
Bad player = Complain about how the mechanics are broken.

Awesome Beta tester = Uses what works and can recognize what's broken. Then provides constructive feed back and game balance ideas. uses stupid mech designs just for fun.

Bad Beta tester = thinks he/shes a good player(skilled), doesn't provide constructive feed back, attacks others. cares about kill to death ratio.

[Pihoqahiak]

Mr 144, on 12 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

And what if you think ECM is fine simply because you don't see the outageous benefits that it grants as meaningful. Seriously, I Lurm without issues...I spot targets without issues...I kill or be killed regardless of ECM coverage. None of the many 'broken' things it does affects my game in any meaningful way. The Raven 3L is an entirely different topic of broken, and ECM is only a small factor in the world of 1v1 lights. Stalker's are just as common as D-DCs...spiders suck regarless of ECM...Streakmandos are not OP even with the unholy trinity...and even ECM cannot save the Cicada.....The only problem is the 3L...nd that has very little to do with ECM.

Mr 144

Unfortunately, the commonality of specific mechs in normal matches means nothing, as a great many of them are being used to level chassis, test out something new by a player, or simply to stave off boredom of the tried and try builds. When there is actually a free for all competitive scene, THAT'S where you will really get the useful data about things like this. Not the PGI "tournaments" or "challenges", or the player attempted tournaments that enforce many limitations to what mechs can be used in them. If you don't see the fact that ECM is far more beneficial for it's very small cost, then you either don't have enough experience, or a sufficiently tactical method of thinking to recognize it. ECM affects your game when you don't even realize it's happening. You could be sitting under cover someplace while 4 of your teammates are getting outmaneuvered because your team doesn't have ECM while their team is using it to move untargetably into superior positioning. Your team will lose because of this and you won't even know why it happened. ECM for it's cloaking ability alone is worth the 1.5 tons and 2 slots, the rest of it's numerous advantages are icing on the cake and drive it far beyond being balanced.