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Mwo Tactics By Sun Tzu (And D&d)


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#1 Symber

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

MWO Tactics

Retain your ability to act and deny your enemy the ability to act. This is the sole principle of tactics.

-Sun Tzu



Quote

FOCUS FIRE

An enemy who is dead is denied all future actions. The sooner he is rendered dead, the more actions he is denied.

Two bloodied enemies have twice as many actions as one untouched and one dead enemy. When all other things are equal, damage must be concentrated.

The weak enemy stings lightly, but falls quickly. The great beast pounds with force, but falls slowly. The master studies his enemies and calculates each reward in measure of the effort required. Then the enemies are picked one by one, like fruit from a tree.

*****

The party said to the paladin, “Why do you always tell us which monster to attack? Who gave you the right to decide?”

The paladin said, “Very well, if you do not accept my leadership I shall step down. Who shall you chose to lead in my place?”

They replied, “We are equals and require no leader. We shall each decide for ourselves.” When the paladin heard this, he left in disgust.

Later, the party stumbled across goblins. One wanted to rush their archers, the other wanted rush their mage, the third insisted their leader must be broken, the forth insisted the weaker minions had to die first.

In the afterlife, each was absolutely certain they would have survived, if the others had followed their plan. Each was correct.

*****

Each fallen enemy grants your team a strategic advantage. Focus your efforts.




Quote

TIMING

The master neither rushes to battle, nor flees it. He delays precisely as long as he must and no further.

Too often, the failure of one creates the failure of many. For when one commits to battle, the whole must commit to battle. The impatience of one ruins the plans of the many. When one falls, he burdens another to save him.

If you face two groups of enemies, engage one as quickly as possible, while delaying the other.

If you are in a room, with two locked doors, and your enemies are attempting to break both doors down, gladly open one. In doing so you draw half the enemy in early, giving you time to defeat him before facing the rest.

*****

Patience is key. Await the opportune moment. Divide and conquer.




Quote

ADVANTAGE

When you face an group of enemies who have no or little power at range and your power at range is great, then do not gleefully rush into melee. By forcing them to come to you, you sacrifice the actions of part of your force, while causing your enemy to lose the actions of his entire force. Your patience is thus rewarded. If you can place dangerous ground between your enemy and yourself, the effectiveness of this technique is heightened.

*****

A warlord was walking along the river, when he saw hungry wolves. He took out a bow and began to fire at them. Though his aim was shaky, and many arrows missed, he killed several before they crossed the river. Once they had finished, he drew his sword and fought with great power, slaying them all.

A bard saw this and asked, astonished, “Why did you use a bow when your aim is inferior to your swordarm?” The warlord asked, “How are wolves at archery?” The bard said, “They have no skill.” And so the warlord replied, “My superiority in melee is excellent, but my superiority at range is total.”

*****

After a lengthy battle, a warlord was preoccupied with the outcome. “Perhaps if we struck from here we could have killed the troll faster. We did not use this high terrain, when we could have."

The swordmage said, “Good warlord, why do you preoccupy yourself with this battle? We were stronger and were victorious. Not a single one of our number fell!”

The warlord said, “I am not preparing to fight this battle again. I am preparing for the one like this, but harder. We will not always be stronger than our enemies.”

*****

Know your strengths and use them effectively. Teamwork is essential to victory.




Quote

PURPOSE

While death is permanent, a great and mighty enemy cannot be killed quickly. Denying him actions grants reprieve from his wrath. Learn when to deny and when to damage.

A slowed or immobilized enemy is denied actions only as long as nothing is within his reach.

An action which misses is equivalent to an action not taken. An enemy who is blinded and swings wildly is no different than an enemy who is stunned.

*****

A sorcerer said to a rogue, “Your effectiveness relies too heavily on an ally. My spells can harm from afar without the aid of anyone else.” The rogue did not answer, save to frown.

Later, the party was overrun. The sorcerer screamed and shouted, “Where is our front line?” The rogue did not answer, save to smile.

*****

There is a time for killing and a time for distraction. Learn to recognize each. Some units are better at certain tasks. Know your roles.





#2 Brenticus

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostSymber, on 13 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

The master neither rushes to battle, nor flees it. He delays precisely as long as he must and no further.



"A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins! Nore is he early! He arrives precisely when he means to!"

#3 Wanderfalke NK

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

Everyone should read and study "the art of war"!

Srsly!

#4 Strig

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

I wish every PUGster was required to read AND understand these lessons before they dropped with me.

#5 Symber

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

I can only hope that I'm doing my part to inform the new pilots out there :)

#6 skoot

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

What did Sun Tzu say about the fog of war? Oh nothing, he never saw a war; only "battles".

Someone scout the tunnel please.

#7 Alex Warden

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:42 PM

great collection... thx for that, Symber

#8 Dishevel

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostWanderfalke NK, on 13 March 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Everyone should read and study "the art of war"!

Srsly!


That last line.
It does not belong with the first.
It ... It hurts my head.

#9 Wanderfalke NK

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:15 AM

You have to adapt at least some of the most common internet slang words / shortcuts, to ensure everyone can follow you.

Thus said: Didnt Sun Tzu mention something about doing the unexpected? :)
Transfered to this: If your enemy is thinking youre intelligent, act dumb and conversely.
YOU didnt expect me to say "srsly" after my first sentence!

By the way, the german translation of "art of war" is not the best because its translated from chinese to english to german.
And since english isnt my native language and the fact that I dont have the english version of "art of war" I cant recite most of the wisdoms in good english. To bad :D

#10 AnnoyingCat

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

all you need is bigger guns

#11 Wanderfalke NK

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

trollface? :)

#12 Forestal

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:18 PM

View Postskooter, on 13 March 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

What did Sun Tzu say about the fog of war? Oh nothing, he never saw a war; only "battles".

Someone scout the tunnel please.

Err, from the very first chapter it is clear that Sun Tzu thought/planned in terms of YEARS and decades, not 15-minute intervals with "auto-resets"...


You want practical "ancient/Chinese" parables/advice? Here's one: what do you do in a horse-racing competition based on winning 2 out of 3 rounds, when the 2 competing sides each have a fast horse, an average horse and a slow horse, one of which must be fielded in each round?

The answer: 1) try to pit your fast horse against the other side's average horse, 2) pit your average horse against the other side's slow horse, 3) and "sacrifice" your slow horse in the round/race against the other side's fast horse.

And that is the essence of GAME balance in MWO, which is not the same thing as the "build/weapon/etc." balance that has gotten many fps players whining-- this is more chess (team-chess in fact) than checkers (where all the pieces are the same)-- and I would generally say that in "everything has its antithesis/counter" in MWO, where even just "making up the numbers" in your team counts for something...


Hmm, I did end up quoting ancient Chinese wisdom after all... the concept, for those who care, is from the ancient Chinese "5 phases" ideology popular in Sun Tzu's time (Trees counters/burrows Earth, Earth counters/dams Water, Water counters/douses Fire, Fire counters/melts Metal, Metal counters/chops Trees)-- this, and the influence of Taoist thought (the synthesis of complementary opposites), is partly what made Sun Tzu such a tactical thinker.

Edited by Forestal, 16 March 2013 - 12:22 AM.


#13 Krazy Kat

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

Great book. The analogies match up with mwo in so many ways.

OP
A warlord was walking along the river, when he saw hungry wolves. He took out a bow and began to fire at them. Though his aim was shaky, and many arrows missed, he killed several before they crossed the river. Once they had finished, he drew his sword and fought with great power, slaying them all.
A bard saw this and asked, astonished, “Why did you use a bow when your aim is inferior to your swordarm?” The warlord asked, “How are wolves at archery?” The bard said, “They have no skill.” And so the warlord replied, “My superiority in melee is excellent, but my superiority at range is total.”

Re-written for MWO:
An Atlas was walking along lower river city, when he saw hungry brawlers acroos the river. He took out a gauss rifle and began to fire at them. Though his aim was shaky, and many slugs missed, he killed several before they crossed the river. Once they had finished, he readied his lasers and SRM's and fought with great power, slaying them all.
A bard saw this and asked, astonished, “Why did you use a gauss rifle when your aim is inferior when sniping?” The warlord asked, “How are wolves at sniping?” The bard said, “They have no skill.” And so the warlord replied, “My superiority in brawling is excellent, but my superiority at range is total.”

#14 Forestal

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:29 AM

View PostKrazy Kat, on 15 March 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Re-written for MWO:
An Atlas was walking along lower river city, when he saw hungry brawlers acroos the river. He took out a gauss rifle and began to fire at them. Though his aim was shaky, and many slugs missed, he killed several before they crossed the river. Once they had finished, he readied his lasers and SRM's and fought with great power, slaying them all.
A bard saw this and asked, astonished, “Why did you use a gauss rifle when your aim is inferior when sniping?” The warlord asked, “How are wolves at sniping?” The bard said, “They have no skill.” And so the warlord replied, “My superiority in brawling is excellent, but my superiority at range is total.”

Great analogy, though I think you could have re-written the last para this way:

A bard saw this and asked, astonished, “Why did you use a gauss rifle when your aim is inferior when sniping?” The warlord asked, “How are wolves brawlers at sniping?” The bard said, “They have no skill.” And so the warlord replied, “My superiority in brawling is excellent, but my superiority at range is total.”


Now, if there was only some story about dealing with lights? (I try luring them back to the heavies, but that has the effect of leading "the slaughterer to the lambs"... :P )

Edited by Forestal, 16 March 2013 - 12:30 AM.


#15 Forestal

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostStrig, on 13 March 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I wish every PUGster was required to read AND understand these lessons before they dropped with me.

Err, there is a Chinese parable/saying about "Talking Tactics on Paper"-- i.e. you CAN'T understand these lessons just by reading them... Zhuge Kongming's most gifted student/protege failed spectacularly in his very first military outing (which is arguably Kongming's fault for allowing him to lead the operation).


BTW, good job scorning (and scaring off) noobs in a thread which is designed to educate them...

Sigh, I wish everyone would just quit complaining about PUGsters being PUGsters-- they are part of the MWO business/gaming model... at least Zhuge Kongming didn't blame anyone else for failing to find/train a worthy successor, and continued leading campaigns until he died.

Edited by Forestal, 16 March 2013 - 01:29 AM.






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