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Streak Srm Damage Is Much Higher Than Expected [Test Results Inside] - Updated 2013-03-15


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#381 stjobe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

View PostVercinaigh, on 14 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:


No damage being done to the rear there, internal damage is not front or rear based, just the armor, which is untouched in those pics.

Ah, good call. I stand corrected.

#382 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:46 PM

View PostTikkamasala, on 14 March 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:


That's not true. The OP (and many more players) discovered a bug. We knew missiles dealt splash damage, but i at least hoped the stated damage per missile would include the possible splash or that the splash damage would not excessively exceed the missiles stated damage.

And now please take your trolling somewhere else.


A bug? Throntor posted a link to a known issue thread I think from a few patches ago were they talk about working on something similar.
And splash damage is working as it is supposed to.

What was acknowledged is that the devs are working on refining the splash system and that the training grounds has a ton of problems and it's data is not accurate.


So well I guess the training part is a bug.

View PostPsikez, on 14 March 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:


Most aware of splash, most not aware of a streak potentially doing 12.9 damage.


lol...true. But we all knew something was up.
I don't think it's a major issue currently for the devs though because it really only affects the smaller mechs and the only ones running around are ecm mechs you can't shoot at anyway.

#383 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostThontor, on 14 March 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I have all the closed beta patch notes since I got in in July, in my email... Starting with closed beta update #6 on July 31st, all the way through to the last closed beta patch on October 25th.

No mention of splash damage anywhere


What about all the changes to lrms?

#384 One Medic Army

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I don't think it's a major issue currently for the devs though because it really only affects the smaller mechs and the only ones running around are ecm mechs you can't shoot at anyway.

Maybe once something is done about this, ECM+SSRM won't be so much of an "I win" button in light vs light combat, and we'll start seeing non-ECM lights around again.

#385 stjobe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

And splash damage is working as it is supposed to.

Here's Paul telling you to stop trolling:

View PostPaul Inouye, on 14 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

The Raven 3L has just fired 1 volley of 2 x S-SRM2 at the Commando 1B. As you can see, the amount of damage done to the Commando does not make sense. There is a total of 51.5 armor being stripped off the Commando. We've been able to reproduce this repeatedly and we're getting an average damage of 12.9 per missile. Quite a bit higher than the intended 2.5 damage per missile plus splash damage.

(emphasis mine)

Edited by stjobe, 14 March 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#386 Acid Phase

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:50 PM

I just wanted to jump in to applaud the extensive research by Amaris. Great find. I'd like to also add that, those who have the audacity to defend the opposite of this discussion is out of thier minds. It is a fact that they want to dispose of thier enemy quickly, rather than working hard to gain a kill. And it's no surprise that somehow, PGI is catering to those people. This was one of the many weapon balances we were talking about since the many patches from the beginning. MWO above all else (cockpit items,map details, camo or even new mechs and maps) needs to have Gameplay/Weapon balance. Amaris, brilliant find.

#387 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostOne Medic Army, on 14 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Maybe once something is done about this, ECM+SSRM won't be so much of an "I win" button in light vs light combat, and we'll start seeing non-ECM lights around again.


That would be nice. I miss the variety.
Although on the plus side apparently jenners are balanced to take proper splash damage. Can you imagine if they had ecm in addition to taking less damage from streaks. Yikes.

#388 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostAcid Phase, on 14 March 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I just wanted to jump in to applaud the extensive research by Amaris. Great find. I'd like to also add that, those who have the audacity to defend the opposite of this discussion is out of thier minds. It is a fact that they want to dispose of thier enemy quickly, rather than working hard to gain a kill. And it's no surprise that somehow, PGI is catering to those people.

You're saying that PGI is catering to people who say that SRM damage is fine as it is? Um... I disagree.

Let's see what PGI has to say about SRMs, before determining who they are catering to.

#389 Warrax the Chaos Warrior

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

View Poststjobe, on 14 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Here's Paul telling you to stop trolling:


There's always at least one, whenever there's a bug or balance issue, that will defend it as "working as intended" until their last breath :blink:

reminds me a bit of this guy:
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#390 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

View Poststjobe, on 14 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Here's Paul telling you to stop trolling:


(emphasis mine)


Splash damage is acting exactly like it was programed to. ie the way it was intended. it did not glitch or bug and go crazy and start doing nutty stuff like causing 1million points of damage.
What has happened is they gave us new mechs without balancing. And as he said a training ground that is bugged and over inflates damage.

#391 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostAcid Phase, on 14 March 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I just wanted to jump in to applaud the extensive research by Amaris. Great find. I'd like to also add that, those who have the audacity to defend the opposite of this discussion is out of thier minds. It is a fact that they want to dispose of thier enemy quickly, rather than working hard to gain a kill. And it's no surprise that somehow, PGI is catering to those people. This was one of the many weapon balances we were talking about since the many patches from the beginning. MWO above all else (cockpit items,map details, camo or even new mechs and maps) needs to have Gameplay/Weapon balance. Amaris, brilliant find.


Have you been playing for the last 6 months?

If so that is how long splash damage as it is in game now has been around. Does it suddenly feel easy to you?
have you seen and or been killed in one shot in a light mech?
I have but only once in 6 months and that's because I stood still in front of a splatcat.

This isn't something new that just got introduced in game. You guys just figured it out and decided that because you suddenly know the sky must be falling.

#392 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:


Splash damage is acting exactly like it was programed to. ie the way it was intended. it did not glitch or bug and go crazy and start doing nutty stuff like causing 1million points of damage.
What has happened is they gave us new mechs without balancing. And as he said a training ground that is bugged and over inflates damage.


Paul Said:

Quote

First is that Testing Grounds has quite a few issues when reporting damage and the numbers you're seeing are inflated quite a bit (almost double). We will be addressing this bug and others as Testing Grounds matures over time.

Second, this does NOT eliminate the findings that S-SRMs AND SRMs are doing more damage than intended.



SRMs are causing more damage then they are intended to inflict -> Unintended Effects

#393 stjobe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Splash damage is acting exactly like it was programed to. ie the way it was intended.

As a professional software developer, let me be the first to tell you that those two are not an equivalence. Bugs happen.

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

it did not glitch or bug and go crazy and start doing nutty stuff like causing 1million points of damage.

It did bug, not to a miilion, only to 12.9 per missile, "Quite a bit higher than the intended 2.5 damage per missile plus splash damage".

Now shoo.

#394 Monky

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostVercinaigh, on 14 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:


No damage being done to the rear there, internal damage is not front or rear based, just the armor, which is untouched in those pics.


Alright then, I was seeing rear armor peel off in my tests, I'll re-test at home. It could very well be only specific locations that are experiencing this.

Either way, it adds additional things for the server to do to prevent it.

Also; It's been explained to Nightcrept about a hundred times guys, he isn't going to get it or is intentionally trolling you.

Edited by Monky, 14 March 2013 - 04:10 PM.


#395 Buso Senshi Zelazny

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:14 PM

I have noticed this issue in live gameplay, although not with the SRMs, SSRMs, or LRMs. It is occurring for me with the AC20, ERPPC, Gauss rifle, and the Ultra AC5. Here is a link to a spreadsheet with the numbers to back this up.

https://docs.google....QUE&usp=sharing

I submitted basically this exact spreadsheet to Support and was told it was a known issue, with no explanation as to what was going on. Splash damage could explain this, but do PPCs and ballistic weapons have splash damage? If they do, then the mechanic needs to be reworked, or made more apparent to the players.

Edit: I initially made the spreadsheet to see how effective I was being with lasers since I didn't trust the hit% with them being hitscan weapons, and I stumbled upon this little gem of a bug.

Edited by Buso Senshi Zelazny, 14 March 2013 - 04:18 PM.


#396 Monky

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostBuso Senshi Zelazny, on 14 March 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

I have noticed this issue in live gameplay, although not with the SRMs, SSRMs, or LRMs. It is occurring for me with the AC20, ERPPC, Gauss rifle, and the Ultra AC5. Here is a link to a spreadsheet with the numbers to back this up.

https://docs.google....QUE&usp=sharing

I submitted basically this exact spreadsheet to Support and was told it was a known issue, with no explanation as to what was going on. Splash damage could explain this, but do PPCs and ballistic weapons have splash damage? If they do, then the mechanic needs to be reworked, or made more apparent to the players.


I was able to ask a few devs in game, and they confirmed PPC behave as a ballistic and that ballistics as a rule do not have splash. Some people are noticing weirdness despite this, but it needs more testing to say something is 'up'.

One possibility could be convergence if you're using multiples of the same weapon type in different body locations (like a CPLT-K2 or CTF-4X). It can hit multiple parts because the aim isn't super precise, one bullet hits one section, one hits an adjacent section.

Edited by Monky, 14 March 2013 - 04:20 PM.


#397 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostProsperity Park, on 14 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:


Paul Said:



SRMs are causing more damage then they are intended to inflict -> Unintended Effects


Due to the addition of smaller mechs then they had around when they initially made the splash system. So how would they balance that? Can they adjust the way a single weapon system hits a certain mech or would they have to make broad balance adjustments like reducing the splash radius affect with all mechs?

#398 One Medic Army

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:


Have you been playing for the last 6 months?

If so that is how long splash damage as it is in game now has been around. Does it suddenly feel easy to you?
have you seen and or been killed in one shot in a light mech?
I have but only once in 6 months and that's because I stood still in front of a splatcat.

This isn't something new that just got introduced in game. You guys just figured it out and decided that because you suddenly know the sky must be falling.

I've been saying that SSRMs were too good vs lights since they got their damage "fixed" and 100% hit rate.
SRMs hitting lights was fairly rare before the recent reductions to "lag armor".
LRMs hitting lights is also a fairly recent thing, it takes Artemis and TAG to get LRMs to chase a full-speed light mech around with any chance to hit it.

I think that covers it, the splash damage may have been there for a long time, but only recently has it become easy to hit light mechs with the affected weapons.

#399 Nightcrept

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:21 PM

View PostThontor, on 14 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:



Closed Beta Update #6

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday July 31st @ 10AM PDT – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


Closed Beta Update #7

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Aug 7th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


Closed Beta Update #8 - v0.8.80

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Aug 21st @ 10AM – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Aug 28th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Sept 4th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


Closed Beta Update #11

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Sept 18th @ 10AM – 2PM PDT
Spoiler


Closed Beta Update #12
Upcoming Patch - Tuesday Sept 25th @ 10AM – 1PM PDT
Spoiler


10/9/12
Spoiler


Build Version 1.0.134 (That's right.. Version 1.0!!!)

Patch Date - Thursday Oct. 25th @ 10AM – 1:30PM PDT
Spoiler



Thank you. I have never gotten email from them or if I did it went into spam. I find the explosion damage indicator in the last patch note interesting. I wonder if it works on the same system?

#400 Vapor Trail

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostNightcrept, on 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:


Splash damage is acting exactly like it was programed to. ie the way it was intended. it did not glitch or bug and go crazy and start doing nutty stuff like causing 1million points of damage.
What has happened is they gave us new mechs without balancing. And as he said a training ground that is bugged and over inflates damage.


"As coded" and "As intended" are capable of being two completely different things. Any programmer will tell you that.

Edited by Vapor Trail, 14 March 2013 - 04:27 PM.






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