205 replies to this topic

[RiceyFighter]

I been noticing in 4 man drops, if two or three of your 4 man team have super high ELO score (top 5% of MWO player), You will be dropped with 4 pug players that can't even turn and shoot straight.

Making it even worse the enemy team will have a balanced ELO team where all team members are average to above average.

So in the end, my entire day with my 4 man team was basically using PUB members as cannon fodder while we try to hold our own. The enemy team would be a balanced Average to Above Average members and will literally rip apart our pug members within the first 5 minutes of the match and we are always the last 4 standing and doing the most damage. So it always ends up being 4 V 8 because our pugs can't keep it together. And that is why we loose 70% of the matches.

To make matters worse our novice Pub team doesn't use optimized builds and 50% of them will run trial and the other half will run terrible light and medium mech builds since they don't have enough C-Bills to buy proper mechs and loadouts.

On the other side, the enemy team probably run optimized builds and cheese builds, but those mechs make an average pilot extremely dangerious.

TL;DR:

So in the end my conclusion is: 3 Super High ELO players + 5 pugs vs 8 average ELO pug players; The 8 average ELO pugs will mostly win because by 5 minutes in it ends up being 4 V 8.

Edit: Here are my stats because people wanted to see it. I am not the best player, I am probably average. My Clan Mates are extremely better than me and I concider them top of the list.

Note: I don't boat.

Edit 2:

Who bumped this tread. It was dead 2 weeks ago...

Edited by RiceyFighter, 25 March 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Exoth3rmic]

Problem you have is now some PGI dev will come along and explain that, according to their records, you're in the bottom 5% and dragging down the high MM pubbies.

But ofc, they won't tell the other 10,000 people what their Elo percentile is, so you'll just have to take their word for it.

[von Pilsner]

I think when you hit launch it grabs 4 more people and does not take their Elo rating into account at all. Then it calculates a team average for your total team and uses that to grab 8 people around that rating to make up the enemy team.

I can not prove that, but it is my suspicion.

Edited by von Pilsner, 13 March 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[RiceyFighter]

Exoth3rmic, on 13 March 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Problem you have is now some PGI dev will come along and explain that, according to their records, you're in the bottom 5% and dragging down the high MM pubbies.

But ofc, they won't tell the other 10,000 people what their Elo percentile is, so you'll just have to take their word for it.

Thanks for being a troll bait man. Real construtive.

von Pilsner, on 13 March 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

I think when you hit launch it grabs 4 more people and does not take their Elo rating into account at all. Then it calculates a team average for your total team and uses that to grab 8 people around that rating to make up the enemy team.

I can not prove that, but it is my suspicion.

I don't think so because our entire drop night was constantly bad pug players ranging from Atlases DDC with only 2 Large Laser and AC 20, to spiders with machineguns. Also most of them can't even shoot straight or run trial mechs.

Edited by RiceyFighter, 13 March 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[shabowie]

Yeah I have seen some really stupid pubs since elo went in. I do think that's how it works. The system tries to get an aggregate score that is roughly similar, so if your group is good you get a couple hundred tons worth of boat anchor as pubbies.

[Exoth3rmic]

RiceyFighter, on 13 March 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Thanks for being a troll bait man. Real construtive.

Well you've got 317 posts, obviously play a lot and probably read the forums quite a bit.

You still felt it necessary to regurgitate a thread on something already repeated over and over with some spurious assumptions on your part.

Still, just for you:

http://mwomercs.com/search?q=high+elo

http://mwomercs.com/search?q=elo+pub

etc etc

[Max Immelmann]

funny is it not that we are NOT allowed to know our ELO. just like i can not see my own medical records, but everyone on the G%$&%M planet can.

[OneEyed Jack]

I love how many people there are on here that have convinced themselves that they are the pinnacle of the WoW Elo ranking. Maybe some are, but since we don't know anybody's ranking, they're just assuming.

Also, even if they are, Elo rankings really don't spread that fast due to the calculations for ranking gain/loss, so "top 5%" at this stage really isn't that far from bottom 5%, in the grand scheme of things.

[shabowie]

OneEyed Jack, on 13 March 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

I love how many people there are on here that have convinced themselves that they are the pinnacle of the WoW Elo ranking.

Except nobody but you is saying that. OP is saying (and I agree) 4 pretty good players are likely to be teamed up with 4 idiots against 8 average to above average players, or so it seems.

Edited by shabowie, 14 March 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[Corwin Vickers]

RiceyFighter, on 13 March 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

to spiders with machineguns.

To be fair, there aren't a whole lot of ways to run that spider variant. 4 Ballistic and 1 energy. Nothing you do is going to be stellar. I've been doing 1 ERlglas and can maybe get 300 if everyone ignores me while I constantly hit an Atlas the whole round. I tried the medlas 4 mgs too but I didn't see any use to the machineguns. I've seen the crit videos but that was not my experience.

[Dreamslave]

shabowie, on 14 March 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Except nobody but you is saying that. OP is saying (and I agree) 4 pretty good players are likely to be teamed up with 4 idiots against 8 average to above average players, or so it seems.

This happens far far too often at this point. I understand that dropping into 4 mans is a completely different ball-game than playing in 8v8, but if I or any other player consistently has to keep picking up slack match after match after match in 4 mans, this leads me to believe whatever Elo system PGI has instituted is either severely flawed or non-existent all together.

[Darius Otsdarva]

If you are at the top bracket of the ELO ratings should just try to be supportive of the players underneath you.

We played a few games before and some players needed to be instructed on basic things such as press Y for team chat, or you can target mechs with R. There are players that will be obstinate and resist good advice, but generally if you be nice and help people out it will improve your game and theirs.

Extra: helpful advice doesn't involve demeaning people or swearing at them.

[Thirdstar]

shabowie, on 14 March 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Except nobody but you is saying that. OP is saying (and I agree) 4 pretty good players are likely to be teamed up with 4 idiots against 8 average to above average players, or so it seems.

That's not what the thread title says. Nor really the body of the OP. So uh.

[Dreamslave]

Darius Otsdarva, on 14 March 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

If you are at the top bracket of the ELO ratings should just try to be supportive of the players underneath you.

We played a few games before and some players needed to be instructed on basic things such as press Y for team chat, or you can target mechs with R. There are players that will be obstinate and resist good advice, but generally if you be nice and help people out it will improve your game and theirs.

Extra: helpful advice doesn't involve demeaning people or swearing at them.

If a pilot is at or near the top of the ELO bracket, none of this should even be happening. I shouldn't have to teach my teammates how to play the game if PGI's Elo system is matching me with players of similar skill level. This Elo system, or lack there of, is broken or isn't even there to begin with.

I have no problem helping new players learn stuff, but if PGI's version of Elo was actually working, teaching new players how to play is something that just shouldn't be happening in drops myself, or any other higher skilled players are a part of.

[Thirdstar]

Dreamslave, on 14 March 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

If a pilot is at or near the top of the ELO bracket, none of this should even be happening. I shouldn't have to teach my teammates how to play the game if PGI's Elo system is matching me with players of similar skill level. This Elo system, or lack there of, is broken or isn't even there to begin with.

I have no problem helping new players learn stuff, but if PGI's version of Elo was actually working, teaching new players how to play is something that just shouldn't be happening in drops myself, or any other higher skilled players are a part of.

I have to agree with this. The expectation out of Elo was that it would segregate, to some degree, different skill tiers. And as far as my experiences go, that worked out for a short time. Then something went boom (around the 5th March patch) and now here we are with the lopsidedness, weight and skill mismatches.

Something's wrong with elo.

[Slaytronic]

its called elo hell glad i am not there

[Arete]

I'd think it comes down to queue times, and I hope they'll be tweaked to better values. Not sure exactly how long the time is until "no match found" happens, but think it's about 2 minutes. If a good match for YOUR team doesn't happen in that times, it just takes whatever players are queueing at the moment and tries to match another team with the same aggregate rating.

They could solve this quite easily, just by increasing the queue time to 5 minutes (and living with the shitstorm on the forums for that instead of the shitstorm from "I'm getting teamed up with noobs"). Or at least being able to choose an option for "fair matches", where you accept a possibly very long queue time but get only players with reasonably matched ratings on your team.

[Fooooo]

AFAIK, the longer you have to wait for a match to be found, the looser the criteria (elo rating). This has already been said to us by the devs.

It even seems that way from experience.

Sometimes I get constant failed to find matches, or close to 3-5min waits, sometimes its an instant failed to find match which I find weird but meh.

Those 5 min waiting to find matches tend to have a lot more....special people......than when it almost instantly finds one.


There was also a post recently from bryan im pretty sure, stating that it tries to match elo player by player, not total team average. (at least for a pure solo player match or a non 8man vs 8man)



2-3-4mans I think have an average of the group, so 1 elo rating for all 4 players in the group. (or however many in the group)...... Which then gets matched against 4 other people with similar ratings. (usually 4 solo players as its faster to find one close probably)

This will mean that sometimes 1 low elo player in a group may get boosted in elo for that match by a fair amount, meaning your going to get an enemy that is at that boosted rating instead of your low elo players rating......(because your low elo guy has your group avg, not his own elo)

So 1 of your players will be outmatched in a sense if you get me. ??

Edited by Fooooo, 14 March 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[Revorn]

i guess, iam usualy one of the Noob Pugs. So take care if you see me, Matchmaker has doomed you.

[Lyrik]

Fooooo, on 14 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

AFAIK, the longer you have to wait for a match to be found, the looser the criteria (elo rating). This has already been said to us by the devs.

Those 5 min waiting to find matches tend to have a lot more....special people......than when it almost instantly finds one.

I'm definitily not highranked in Elo but even I noticed this xD If matchmaking needs more than 5-10secs then I really get some weird teammates

Edited by Lyrik, 14 March 2013 - 02:05 AM.