205 replies to this topic

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Elo as implemented in MWO is designed to group players of similar ability. It is specifically designed not to try and average the Elo ratings of a team without having first tried to produce a more narrow set of Elo ratings.

If the OP is regularly getting grouped with trial mechs and new players, it's because either i) there just aren't enough players online to make a balanced pair of teams in which all players have similar Elo ratings or ii) his Elo rating isn't actually particularly high and it's where he belongs. The former might simply be because of the time of day he plays. There's also the added complication that some players are using tricks to avoid dropping on particular maps (e.g., you can just rename the map folder in the game's directory if you don't want to play Alpine with your splatcat or whatever).

For myself, I find Elo works quite well. I'm an experienced but average player so although I'm not very good I also don't usually (!) make beginner's mistakes. I often find myself in matches with lots of people with gold tags but a play-for-fun attitude. I like it.

[Corvus Antaka]

This might happen on occassion if MM has to match you to get a match.

[Galenit]

RiceyFighter, on 13 March 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

So in the end, my entire day with my 4 man team was basically using PUB members as cannon fodder while we try to hold our own.

Did you use chat to involve the pugs in your tactics?
If not, you use them as cannon fodder and get what you deserve.

Edit: typo

Edited by Galenit, 14 March 2013 - 06:07 AM.

[SgtKinCaiD]

A good explxanation => http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2056576

[Hammerhai]

"Did you use chat to involve the pugs in you tactics?
If not, you use them as cannon fodder and get what you deserve."
^^This

SCHADENFREUDE
Your tears are so yummy and sweet.

But, more seriously, I hope that will be sorted in due time. They cannot afford to drop the towel on this one.
In my tier (Joystick purgatory -Hell ain't a bad place to be) I sometimes get closer matches than before. Not as often as I would like, but there is a difference.

Edited by Hammerhai, 14 March 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Felbombling]

This situation is so strange. It reads like a twisted, turned inside out PuGstomping nightmare, where the amazing and skilled players are getting stomped due to their own ability to group up together and use voicecoms.

[Flapdrol]

Well, if they balance teams on ELO points that's how it's going to work. A few players that have won way more than lost will end up with the players that lose the most, the pug players that are new to the game.

It's not ideal, but it's better than winning almost every game effortlessly, like it was before elo in 4 mans.

[Kell Draygo]

Pugstompers reap what they sow. The three or four man farmed like crazy for stats and c-bills. Now there is some sort of matchmaking in place, they get stomped. Very little sympathy here. A solution is to find more people to fill out your team.

[Whompity]

Related question...

Do you have a separate ELO by mech? Or just one overall? If you practice your heavies like crazy and do well with them, do you end up playing with the same tier of opponents when you buy a new spider and try it out? Seems harsh.

[Kell Draygo]

Devs stated that individual ELO is separated by weight class.

[Arete]

Afaik, it's one elo rating per weight class. Not sure if you have one "base" elo and a modifier for every weight or if they're completely different though.

[Whompity]

Ah, thanks for that. Better than I thought, at least. Makes sense, given the comments from the previous "competition".
I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing my own ELO "percentile" as a stat. You don't have to share yours if you don't want to, but it's nice to see what (if any) progress you are making, though I know it's a kind of fudge stat.

I have to say though, the quality of my games has gone up quite a bit since ELO. I FEEL evenly matched, and my K/D has stalled at 1.05, which might indicate I'm playing at my level, at least in the mech I play most (Phract 2X).

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 14 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[LoganMkv]

A pugstomper complaining about matchmaking? It seems elo is a huge success.

[ciller]

I believe what OP is saying to be true however it does not seem to be a problem for me. The 4 mans I get in win over 90% of the time, if I had to guess. That being said me and the 3 other people in my team are pretty consistently right at the top of the leader board where we far far far outscore the other 4 pugs on our team.
Basically if your 4 man is filled 4 people that work well together and are exceptional pilots they can overcome the disadvantage of outrageously low elo pugs that get put in the same team.

Some sort of confirmation or not on how elo is working it out form a dev would be nice.

Edited by ciller, 14 March 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[ItsAPotato]

I'm glad my group weren't the only ones noticing this trend.

I've also noticed that, if the enemy team has an obvious 4 man (it often does. 4 of the same house and 4 lonewolves), they tend to have the same problem as us.

Edited by ItsAPotato, 14 March 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Kell Draygo, on 14 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Pugstompers reap what they sow. The three or four man farmed like crazy for stats and c-bills. Now there is some sort of matchmaking in place, they get stomped. Very little sympathy here. A solution is to find more people to fill out your team.

Kell Draygo, on 14 March 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Devs stated that individual ELO is separated by weight class.

That's probably why I end up paired in teams with humongous tonnage advantage over my own..


They told me the above it's balanced. I've been paired up with another 4-man the other side, in my side you can guess that two members of my 4 man (you can read our names) have a rather high ELO and the other two are "normal" players. There was probably another 4 man in my team, then ELO is punishing us because we were 4+4 vs a 4+pug with.. oh 240 tons more than us.

Oh, and the MM found this match nearly instantly. I'm used to wait several time to find a match and end up into highly unbalanced drops, but often the unbalance happens also when the MM finds the game nearly instantly.

ELO, no matter what devs say, DOES NOT account weight factors. If it does, then it's not working.

I'm fine if MM, when I'm into a 50 ton mech, pairs me up against a 60-70 ton mech, not an atlas.. not against 1 Atlas and two CTFs MORE in the other team.

This isn't about pugstomping. And if ELO is working right then someone has to explain to me why 9 games out of 10 end up 8-0 or 0-8 and 1 out of 10 is a nearly balanced match.

Edited by John MatriX82, 14 March 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[MischiefSC]

A big part of it is going to be when you play. See, if there are too few other Elo people of similar rank to you then it will cast the net further and further. What's also likely is that it's pulling premades for the other team as well. You've probably both got some pugs with you.

One question, are you using chat to try and coordinate with the pugs you drop with? Perhaps other teams are doing that and making better use of their teammates? No offense here just that statistically what happens to you should happen to everyone else in a similar situation thus balancing your game averages out to 50/50 win/loss. If that's not happening than your play style is the common denominator in the equation.

Premade groups are suffering from wonky balancing. Are all the people in your group comparably skilled? That can throw it off too, that's a known issue.

The last couple of days were just bad though. I don't know why. Even pugging I was dropping with people who were just.... not spectacular. Worst experience I've had since pugstomping heyday prior to Elo. Hopefully it was just a wacky one-off and today will be better. Perhaps they were adjusting something in Elo yesterday? I don't know.

[Musashi Alexander]

This phenomena might explain why I'm seeing a lot more groups in my matches the last 4-5 days or so. Before that it was largely all PUGs but now it's clear that at least half my matches have teams in them.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Kell Draygo, on 14 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Pugstompers reap what they sow. The three or four man farmed like crazy for stats and c-bills. Now there is some sort of matchmaking in place, they get stomped. Very little sympathy here. A solution is to find more people to fill out your team.

LoganMkv, on 14 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

A pugstomper complaining about matchmaking? It seems elo is a huge success.

LOL, because playing in a four man group is cheating perhaps ???

Before ELO, I lost and won matches but at least my participation in the match was significant in the result of the match. Now even if i try my best, what can i expect to do when half of my team are new players ???

New players should not be used to compensante high ELO players, they should have their own low-ELO matchs like a normal balancing system should work !!!

Edited by SgtKinCaiD, 14 March 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Kell Draygo]

John MatriX82, on 14 March 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

That's probably why I end up paired in teams with humongous tonnage advantage over my own..


They told me the above it's balanced. I've been paired up with another 4-man the other side, in my side you can guess that two members of my 4 man (you can read our names) have a rather high ELO and the other two are "normal" players. There was probably another 4 man in my team, then ELO is punishing us because we were 4+4 vs a 4+pug with.. oh 240 tons more than us.

Oh, and the MM found this match nearly instantly.

ELO, no matter what devs say, DOES NOT account weight factors. If it does, then it's not working.

I'm fine if MM, when I'm into a 50 ton mech, pairs me up against a 60-70 ton mech, not an atlas.. not against 1 Atlas and two CTFs MORE in the other team.

This isn't about pugstomping. And if ELO is working right then someone has to explain to me why 9 games out of 10 end up 8-0 or 0-8 and 1 out of 10 is a nearly balanced match.

You seem to not understand what we are saying. We said that you get a separate ELO Rating for each weight class. We did not say that the ELO system includes tonnage into its matchmaking process.