550 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

General Taskeen, on 14 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

? People think it is, which is hilarious. Look at my Mech CALL OF DUTY SAW MG-42 MACHINE GUN SHOOT CRIT BOOLETS LAWL.

Mech-sized weapons, right?

So what's 5.56mm for a man would be 27.8-55.6mm for a 'mech.
What's .50 calibre for a man would be 2.5 to 5 inches for a 'mech (63.5mm - 127mm).
What's 120mm for a man would be 600mm - 1200mm for a 'mech.

Or, conversely, mounting a 5.56mm weapon on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 1.112mm - 0.556mm gun.
Mounting a .50 cal on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 0.1 - 0.05 inch gun (0.254mm - 0.127mm).
Mounting a 120mm gun on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 24 - 12mm gun.

I think it's pretty clear that 'mech-mounted weapons cannot be compared 1:1 with modern-day weaponry in any useful fashion.

Edited by stjobe, 14 March 2013 - 11:58 AM.

[Heeden]

Esplodin, on 14 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c22405e1a008e9c

Or a more useful config:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cc0917bf4b5f44

Granted more than 2, but not 5 without sacrificing a backup weapon completely.

If I found myself running dry I'd dump those lasers in a heart-beat, why spend 2 tons on a 1.6 dps laser when 2 tons gets you 16 dps of MGs?

Quote

I'm talking about the weapon system, not trial mechs. (where the fudge did that come from?) It's trash, and the marginal DPS it gives is not worth the risk of ammo explosion and crit slots. The fact that there are mechs that rely on it just makes it more tragic.

The 5K trial mech comes the closest to relying on MG for damage (roughly 40% of its DPS), non-trial mechs can be modified to rely on something else.

[Livewyr]

Solution to MGs.. and yes.. I'm going to base it off of TT (in relation to MWO)

SL in TT = 3 damage every 10 seconds
MG in TT = 2 damage every 10 seconds

Currently
SLs 3 damage x 3shots/10 seconds = 9 damage per 10 second
MGs .04 damage x10 /Second x 10 seconds = 4 damage per 10 seconds.

Simply buff the damage to be in line with other tiny weapon (which would help with crits). or buff the RoF to be in line..
It's different enough that it wouldn't be a replication.

.02 damage x30/Second x 10 seconds = 6 damage/ 10 seconds
OR
.08 damage x10/second x 10 seconds = 8 damage/ 10 seconds (my recommendation for more damage and better crit-hunting.

[CancR]

BD Magnum, on 14 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I think 2 DPS is fine. In TT, an MG and an AC/2 do the same DPS. In MWO, both require constant fire. An AC/2 has a huge range and velocity advantage, but is obviously harder to fit. The MG also does its damage in smaller increments. The only reason I'd be against matching the DPS at 4 is that an MG is heatless. In TT, the difference between 0 and 1 heat per shot is negligible; in MWO, it's enormous.

2 dps is insane., that means my 4 MG spider does 8dps. 1 DPS is much more reasonable if a little much maybe as that same spider is now doing 4 DPS

[General Taskeen]

Heeden, on 14 March 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

If I found myself running dry I'd dump those lasers in a heart-beat, why spend 2 tons on a 1.6 dps laser when 2 tons gets you 16 dps of MGs?



The 5K trial mech comes the closest to relying on MG for damage (roughly 40% of its DPS), non-trial mechs can be modified to rely on something else.

Which is why you are in a low ELO Bracket

[General Taskeen]

stjobe, on 14 March 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Mech-sized weapons, right?

So what's 5.56mm for a man would be 27.8-55.6mm for a 'mech.
What's .50 calibre for a man would be 2.5 to 5 inches for a 'mech (63.5mm - 127mm).
What's 120mm for a man would be 600mm - 1200mm for a 'mech.

Or, conversely, mounting a 5.56mm weapon on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 1.112mm - 0.556mm gun.
Mounting a .50 cal on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 0.1 - 0.05 inch gun (0.254mm - 0.127mm).
Mounting a 120mm gun on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 24 - 12mm gun.

I think it's pretty clear that 'mech-mounted weapons cannot be compared 1:1 with modern-day weaponry in any useful fashion.

I'm poking fun at the MG "is only for shootin the Infantry" crowd that think they are shooting a hand-held gun, because it is unfortunately called "Machine Gun."

[Terror Teddy]

CancR, on 14 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

2 dps is insane., that means my 4 MG spider does 8dps. 1 DPS is much more reasonable if a little much maybe as that same spider is now doing 4 DPS

Higher DPS means higher fire rate.

Higher fire rate means faster ammo consumtion.

2 DPS is five times faster than now which means that you go through 1 tonne ammo in 40 seconds - with ONE MG.

4 is 10 seconds.

So be prepared to carry a shitton of ammo and learn to conserve it.

[Heeden]

General Taskeen, on 14 March 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Which is why you are in a low ELO Bracket

I thought my low Elo bracket was due to levelling the SDR-5V mostly, nothing to do with using a 5K with fantasy equipment.

Also, where does it list Elo ratings, I thought they were hidden?

[General Taskeen]

CancR, on 14 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

2 dps is insane., that means my 4 MG spider does 8dps. 1 DPS is much more reasonable if a little much maybe as that same spider is now doing 4 DPS

1 to 2 DPS is fine.

The fundamental change for an MG to do relatively close to full digit damage per shell/bullet is to give it a slight cool down. I.E., like the Mech Warrior 3 example below:

0.8 Damage
0.625 Cool Down
200 Ammo Per Ton

Heeden, on 14 March 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I thought they were hidden?

MG, Flamer, NARC, LB-X are in the low ELO Bucket in larger numbers. Called the "under hive" or whatever.

Edited by General Taskeen, 14 March 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Heeden]

General Taskeen, on 14 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

MG, Flamer, NARC, LB-X are in the low ELO Bucket in larger numbers. Called the "under hive" or whatever.

Isn't Elo seperated by weight class? Rating it by weapon load-out would be pretty complicated.

Edited by Heeden, 14 March 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Sifright]

CancR, on 14 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

2 dps is insane., that means my 4 MG spider does 8dps. 1 DPS is much more reasonable if a little much maybe as that same spider is now doing 4 DPS

NOT A WHOLE EIGHT!

my Jenner-D does 10.33 dps for 15 seconds before i have to institute heat control on my self.

Your mech would still be not be as good as my Jenner because my jenner does all that at higher range.

Heeden, on 14 March 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Isn't Elo seperated by weight class? Rating it by weapon load-out would be pretty complicated.

Elo is rated via wins on each mech weight class.

What he means is that the worse players in low elo games tend to use the more awful weapons.

[Terror Teddy]

Sifright, on 14 March 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

NOT A WHOLE EIGHT!

my Jenner-D does 10.33 dps for 15 seconds before i have to institute heat control on my self.

Your mech would still be not be as good as my Jenner because my jenner does all that at higher range.

And you regenerate ammo

[Sifright]

Terror Teddy, on 14 March 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

And you regenerate ammo

I also have an upfront burst of 40 damage which against armour stripped targets is usually enough to instantly blow the section up. No need to fart around plinking the equipment inside it with my loler tickle guns.

Edit: I especially love it when other mechs with mgs shoot me i'm all like

Edited by Sifright, 14 March 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Ghost_19Hz]

Because some people think crit seeking is a valid reason to use up a ballistic slot, 1.5+ tons, 2+ crits, and risk ammo explosions.

[Heeden]

Sifright, on 14 March 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

NOT A WHOLE EIGHT!

my Jenner-D does 10.33 dps for 15 seconds before i have to institute heat control on my self.

Your mech would still be not be as good as my Jenner because my jenner does all that at higher range.

That's because Spiders are sucky damage dealers in general - the 5V has a max DPS of 3.2 with its 2 MPLas, the 5D can do slightly to much better depending on how hot and/or slow you want to run.

Even with machine guns as they currently stand a 5K out damages the 5V by taking a LLas/ERLLas (with 1 ton of ammo) or nearly matches it with a MPLas (allowing 4 tons of ammo).

Quote

Elo is rated via wins on each mech weight class.

What he means is that the worse players in low elo games tend to use the more awful weapons.

Funnily enough my 5K has the best results of all my Spiders with the others dragging it down, although this should be countered by my slightly above average Jenner stats (after a couple of rounds in the 5V I have to play in my Jenner a bit to let off some frustration).

[Sifright]

Heeden, on 14 March 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Funnily enough my 5K has the best results of all my Spiders with the others dragging it down, although this should be countered by my slightly above average Jenner stats (after a couple of rounds in the 5V I have to play in my Jenner a bit to let off some frustration).

In my experience almost every one ignores a spider if there is any other mech target around. I've taken to swatting them in my light because spider pilots get so used to the fact that they are at the bottom of the priority list that they can stand still and no one shoots them

[Terror Teddy]

Sifright, on 14 March 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

In my experience almost every one ignores a spider if there is any other mech target around. I've taken to swatting them in my light because spider pilots get so used to the fact that they are at the bottom of the priority list that they can stand still and no one shoots them

THIS

They literally ignored me.

...until i made urbiespider...

Edited by Terror Teddy, 14 March 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Heeden]

Sifright, on 14 March 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

In my experience almost every one ignores a spider if there is any other mech target around. I've taken to swatting them in my light because spider pilots get so used to the fact that they are at the bottom of the priority list that they can stand still and no one shoots them

Firing the big blue beam from my 5K usually gets it a lot of attention, but then I'm over the hills and far away to try again from another angle. It's sometimes annoying when I manage to get 4 heavies chasing me and the rest of my team dies to whatever else the enemy has.

The 12 JJs on my 5D make it pretty hard to kill when used properly but it just can't damage anything. I would kill for a couple of extra energy slots on that thing, 4 MLas or 4 SLas + 2 DHS would make it so much hurtier.

[Buffalo Six]

stjobe, on 14 March 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Mech-sized weapons, right?

So what's 5.56mm for a man would be 27.8-55.6mm for a 'mech.
What's .50 calibre for a man would be 2.5 to 5 inches for a 'mech (63.5mm - 127mm).
What's 120mm for a man would be 600mm - 1200mm for a 'mech.

Or, conversely, mounting a 5.56mm weapon on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 1.112mm - 0.556mm gun.
Mounting a .50 cal on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 0.1 - 0.05 inch gun (0.254mm - 0.127mm).
Mounting a 120mm gun on a 'mech would be akin to a man using a 24 - 12mm gun.

I think it's pretty clear that 'mech-mounted weapons cannot be compared 1:1 with modern-day weaponry in any useful fashion.

Yes those are called Autocannons.........

Look I'll support a bump in the MG damage as soon as they add the mechanic for when your blowing thru ammo with a 2 minute trigger pull following an atlas sanding paint off him and your damn barrels on your precious MG explode because they melted into slag...........

[Sifright]

Buffalo Six, on 14 March 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yes those are called Autocannons.........

Look I'll support a bump in the MG damage as soon as they add the mechanic for when your blowing thru ammo with a 2 minute trigger pull following an atlas sanding paint off him and your damn barrels on your precious MG explode because they melted into slag...........

as opposed to firing a small laser forever and the focusing lens turning to liquid? :|

Is there a point in your post some where or do you hate the idea of certain mech types not being garbage so much you literally are incapable of understanding what is and isn't good game design? |: