550 replies to this topic

[Iron Hyena]

Please buff machine guns.

[Commander Kobold]

armyof1, on 16 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Why are you comparing 2-3 lasers to a single MG? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to compare multiple lasers with the same amount of multiple MGs?

I think he was trying to balance them on a weight to DPS scale 1 functional mg weighs 1.5t same as 3 small lasers.

although all his comparison showed me is that MGs need a bit of a dmg boost/mind you if you where to increase the damage of MGs you would have to nerf its crit abillity proportionately

[Sifright]

moneyBURNER, on 16 March 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

A DPS of 1.2 for the MG would put it just above the SL, with the advantage of sustained fire with no cooldowns and no extra heat, which is ideal in particular situations, especially for a light that is outmaneuvering/being ignored by an enemy. MGs can be paired with buffed flamers for an effective combination, and would make decent complimentary weapons for mechs on cooldown in brawls.

A DPS of 2 for the MG would make it too effective as a short range weapon on speedy mechs. 4 MGs = 8 DPS, so 24 damage in 3 seconds with no heat, which would be the equivalent damage of 8(!) SL. 8SL (4tons) quickly overheats a light mech with 20DHs and requires a lot of downtime, whereas 4MG with 4 tons of ammo (6tons) could be fired continuously and be hugely advantageous in critical moments.

The ammo limitation and extra weight/space of 2DPS MGs would not bring them into balance with the 'infinite' firing capability of SLs in a 15min game with 8 enemies -- the MG would be far superior in most cases, and threaten the use of autocannons on ballistic boats because it would be more effective to use MGs with lots of ammo and then max out on other weapons and equipment.

You are forgetting

90M dead zone on range for mg lasers get +50% to max range vs effective.

MG has cone of fire and spreads damage.

SL has pinpoint precision.

MG has ammo explosions

SL has infinite ammo

Medium to heavy and up will never seriously take mgs as they are to slow to get within their effective range unless fitted on a dragon.

only the 4X cataphract makes extensive use of B hardpoints whilst being the slowest heavy mech in the game.

[Commander Kobold]

also 2 dps seems a tad much I'd say start with like .5-1dps then tweak from there.

[Carrioncrows]

I'm fine with that. ditch the crit's for all I care.

All they do is kill components. If they killed engines that would be one thing but they don't so no one cares that they crit.

Omni 13, on 17 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

also 2 dps seems a tad much I'd say start with like .5-1dps then tweak from there.

*Sigh* go read the last page until then I Exile you.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 17 March 2013 - 01:10 AM.

[Sifright]

Omni 13, on 17 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

also 2 dps seems a tad much I'd say start with like .5-1dps then tweak from there.

0.4 dps is what we are on already. a 20% increase in damage over time is nothing.

1.2DPS is a must at a minimum otherwise the SL is better weapon in every single way.

[Blood Skar]

Have to say I agree with a damage buff.

Now i dont think they should be buffed too much, maybe just tweaked a bit. Keep the crit thing and up the damage very slightly.
.75 DPS per gun for a starting point?.
If that doesnt work tweak it a bit - i cant see the harm in trying.
To the person saying 2 DPS and backing that up with figures. Well maybe they do need that. But, i would like to say that MG's have NO heat and have the added crit seeking thing going on with them at the moment. Now those 2 things alone would tell me that 2DPS would be too high. (yes i realise MG's have ammo costs and that semi balances this out, but not enough imo).
I could stomach 1 DPS to start with and fiddle up or down from there.
Ultimately its PGI's decision and they have been steadily 'improving' MG's over time - so maybe they will further increase DPS, who knows.

One things for sure - MG's dont feel like they are working correctly as of now.

As a side issue(off topic slightly - but related to MG's).
Mech's boating MG's are true to lore. (dont try argueing 'boats' arn't canon either...like another thread is trying to - that is just lolably wrong).
Any arguement that says - 'if MG's do get a damage buff this will lead to boating MG' - well thats no different from any other boat out there. SRM being the biggest 'boating issue' if you ask me - but again - even a SRM boat is true to lore. So how about we drop all this anti boat thing?

Edited by Blood Skar, 17 March 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Blood Skar, on 17 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Ultimately its PGI's decision and they have been steadily 'improving' MG's over time

When did this happen?

[Sifright]

Blood Skar, on 17 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Have to say I agree with a damage buff.

Now i dont think they should be buffed too much, maybe just tweaked a bit. Keep the crit thing and up the damage very slightly.
.75 DPS per gun for a starting point?.
If that doesnt work tweak it a bit - i cant see the harm in trying.
To the person saying 2 DPS and backing that up with figures. Well maybe they do need that. But, i would like to say that MG's have NO heat and have the added crit seeking thing going on with them at the moment. Now those 2 things alone would tell me that 2DPS would be too high. (yes i realise MG's have ammo costs and that semi balances this out, but not enough imo).
I could stomach 1 DPS to start with and fiddle up or down from there.
Ultimately its PGI's decision and they have been steadily 'improving' MG's over time - so maybe they will further increase DPS, who knows.

One things for sure - MG's dont feel like they are working correctly as of now.

As a side issue(off topic slightly - but related to MG's).
Mech's boating MG's are true to lore. (dont try argueing 'boats' arn't canon either...like another thread is trying to - that is just lolably wrong).
Any arguement that says - 'if MG's do get a damage buff this will lead to boating MG' - well thats no different from any other boat out there. SRM being the biggest 'boating issue' if you ask me - but again - even a SRM boat is true to lore. So how about we drop all this anti boat thing?

adding crit buff over the period of one year is not a buffing it over time unless you happen to be a thousand year old vampire.....

Those don't exist so care to explain how one buff a year is steadily improving?

[Yokaiko]

Blood Skar, on 17 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Any arguement that says - 'if MG's do get a damage buff this will lead to boating MG' - well thats no different from any other boat out there. SRM being the biggest 'boating issue' if you ask me - but again - even a SRM boat is true to lore. So how about we drop all this anti boat thing?

The most ballistic slots that any mech has is 4.

....and even then on of those is a phract, a 4MG 2 ml and SRM4 phract? Neeto, its a 70 ton Jenner.

Edited by Yokaiko, 17 March 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[Sifright]

Yokaiko, on 17 March 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

The most ballistic slots that any mech has is 4.

....and even then on of those is a phract, a 4MG 2 ml and SRM4 phract? Neeto, its a 70 ton Jenner.

I loled.

because its true

Edited by Sifright, 17 March 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Tolkien]

Machine guns need a serious buff, as even with the crit buff they are still trashtastic.

Another reason they desperately need a damage buff is that there are currently zero effective ballistic weapons under 6 tons (AC/2). This means that small mechs with ballistic hard points are getting screwed.

I'm actually in favour of them inventing a 2-3 ton ballistic weapon just so there is something analogous to medium, medium pulse, small pulse, SRM2 or LRM5 - so far missile and energy weapons utterly dominate choice when using smaller mechs.

It's been said before and I'll repeat it, the Machine Gun is a mech combat weapon (existed before infantry) that should do the same damage as an AC2, but only at very close ranges.

Edited by Tolkien, 17 March 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Tolkien, on 17 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Machine guns need a serious buff, as even with the crit buff they are still trashtastic.

I refuse to put a machine gun on a mech until there is a reasonable chance that the ammo will do more damage to the enemy than to me.

[Xelah]

My thoughts on the matter:

Take the spider 5k and the quad MG's. This does 1.6 DPS. Most people I see put a ERLL in the CT for 2.12 dps. That comes out to 3.72 DPS I have builds that sneeze more damage than that in ANY Jenner, Commando, or Raven chassis. Anything that can be done in a 5k can be done better with another mech.

When a mech that has the hardpoints set to make extensive use of a weapon, but is nearly useless, it is time for a damage buff for that weapon.

[[edit: fixed some math]]

Edited by Xelah, 17 March 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Sybreed]

yes, PGI needs to buff MGs damage... I don't even know why they haven't done it yet. They look soooo stubborn when it comes to change something they have already coded. ECM nerf? It's taking freaking forever. Energy weapons buffs? Took a good 6 months. They need to remove missile splash damage NOW? Nope, wait until early april... (although I could be more forgiving on this one since the 2 next patch are probably done and ready.

Still, we heard nothing from PGI about MGs and I don't understand why buffing MGs is so taboo to them.

[Treckin]

MACHINE GUN?

[Xando Parapasu]

Treckin, on 17 March 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

MACHINE GUN?

21st century Auto Cannon!

Edited by Xando Parapasu, 17 March 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[Treckin]

This big

[Xando Parapasu]

30mm Auto cannon shell. Or Target round?


20mm Machine gun!

Edited by Xando Parapasu, 17 March 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Treckin]

Damage like this?