15 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Comparison and specs before we start:
Small Laser - 3 damage, 2 heat, 2.25 sec cooldown, optimal @ 90m, .5 ton, 1 slot, .75 sec duration
Small Pulse Laser - 3 damage, 3 heat, 2.25 sec cooldown, optimal @ 90m, 1 ton, 1 slot, .50 sec duration
Medium Laser - 5 damage, 4 heat, 3 sec cooldown, optimal @ 270m, 1 ton, 1 slot, 1 sec duration

I think this has always been a problem in the earlier MW games, where the small pulse laser is always the black sheep in the energy weapon family.. and since this game is willing to change and tweak weapons... this should be no different.

However, this isn't the "change pulse lasers behavior" thread... consult the other relevant thread for input. This is for strictly

When you compare the Small Pulse Laser to its natural peer, the small pulse laser... it is woefully underwhelming when you double the tonnage used. The damage isn't significant enough to warrant attention, especially when the medium laser exceeds them at the damage and range for the tonnage consumed. Of course, the DPS of the medium laser is actually better... medium lasers has a DPS of 1.25, whereas the SPL has a DPS of 1.09...

On a HPS (Heat Per Second metric), this is hotter than the medium laser! SPL generates 1.09 HPS, whereas the medium laser generates 1.00 HPS. Considering that you are able to fire the small pulse laser more often (due to cooldown+duration), this is an actual issue!

So, to properly address this... the following has to be done IMO:
Reduce the cooldown of the small pulse laser to 2 and heat to 2.5. HPS would then be .83 (which is between the HPS of the med laser and small laser) and DPS would then be 1.2. The new DPS does not trudge into medium laser territory for damage.. at worse, if we tweak the cooldown of the small pulse laser to 2.10, DPS would be 1.15, which isn't too shabby.

If cooldown cannot be tweaked, heat needs to be lowered to 2.15 or 2.10. The HPS would then be .78 and .76 respectively. That should make it much more competitive.

Anyways, it never made sense to me that the small pulse laser would generate more heat than the equivalent medium laser.

Please post your experiences with the small pulse laser if you'd like. It's just evident to me that this weapon has no role when compared to the small and med lasers.

[Corvus Antaka]

I like the small pulse laser. it has the shortest duration of all the lasers, and as a supplemental weapon that is heat efficient it works great.

[Terror Teddy]

Sir, may I interest you in this fine MG?

Don't complain - lasers benefit from DHS and my MG's do not.

[Kmieciu]

At least Small laser is used as a filler backup weapon. On a Stalker you can have 6 SL for 3 tons, and spend the rest on LRMs.

Maybe if the Small Pulse Laser had it's duration shortened from .50 to .25 seconds it would be used on a JR7-F and CDA-2A ?

I don`t know about you, but nowadays I don't bother with anything other than Medium Lasers on light mechs.

[Heeden]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 14 March 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

I like the small pulse laser. it has the shortest duration of all the lasers, and as a supplemental weapon that is heat efficient it works great.

If you hold a SPLas on a target for 0.5 seconds it does 3 damage, holding a MLas on target for the same amount of time does 2.5 but also gives the potential for the next 0.5 seconds to cause another 2.5. MLas has higher base DPS, triple the range and better damage-per-heat all of which you give up for an extra 0.5 damage-per-second-on-target.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use SPLas if it works for you, but there is very little to recommend it if you have 1 ton, 1 crit and 1 energy slot.

[Sable Dove]

Agreed, and I also suggest increasing SL range slightly, as regular lasers are supposed to be longer-ranged than pulse variants. Say, 150m? Still less than a MedPL, but better than the SPL.

[MuKen]

I still think pulse lasers as a whole need to be rethemed. Only in the most optimal of circumstances is the "faster damage per time on target" useful, and even in those most optimal of circumstances, it is debatable whether or not the pulse is worth the extra weight, heat, and loss of range. If a weapon is going to serve a specific niche like that, at the very least it should blow its counterpart out of the water when its niche applies.

I think it would make more sense to make the pulse lasers into sustained damage weapons, as opposed to the stronger alphas of the normal lasers. For example, make the mplas

2.5 damage
2 heat
1 sec firing duration
0 sec cooldown
2 tons
1 crit

This makes its damage-per-heat the same as the mlas, but since it cycles 4 times as fast, its dps is twice as much, reflecting the fact that it weighs like 2 mlas. So basically, it allows you to spend double weight to get double the dps of mlas into the same number of hardpoints. In exchange, it has to be held on target all the time to get its full effect, and has much poorer alpha strike and range.

Then take the mlas and reduce its firing duration to 0.75 and increase its cooldown by 0.25 (and maybe increase its heat a little), so it instead takes over the role the mplas is using now. This clarifies the normal lasers as burst precision alpha weapons, and pulse lasers as continuous fire dps weapons.

This is similar to the tradeoffs we look at amongst the autocannons.

Edited by MuKen, 14 March 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Culler]

Honestly you could take out all the pulse lasers and not really impact the game much. They exist to deal marginally more damage and/or have a faster beam duration in exchange for more heat generation and tonnage. The small is certainly the silliest of the breed but by no means atypical. Pulse lasers just don't have a strong niche. Beam duration needs to be shorter on all of them to really make a difference.

[Monky]

0.25 second beam time is about the only viable fix I can recommend.

[Alilua]

I agree that it needs some work.
Keep heat, and reduce cooldown to 1.75 seconds.

[Kmieciu]

In order to be competitive,the SPL needs shorter cooldown and / or beam duration. It could be a "high DPS, high heat, close range weapon".

How about reducing cooldown 2.25 -> 1.75 seconds and beam duration 0.5 -> 0.25? That would increase the DPS to 1.5, which is still lower than 2 SL (1 DPS each), but the beam duration would be 3 times shorter.

Edited by Kmieciu, 14 March 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[kiltymonroe]

Don't forget that the medium laser also has three times the range. You'd have to drop the heat and the cooldown and maybe damage or the beam duration too before the SPL becomes viable.

3.5 damage, 2.5 heat, 1.75s cooldown?

[Kmieciu]

kiltymonroe, on 16 March 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Don't forget that the medium laser also has three times the range. You'd have to drop the heat and the cooldown and maybe damage or the beam duration too before the SPL becomes viable.

3.5 damage, 2.5 heat, 1.75s cooldown?

When two fast light mechs duel each other they don't need range, they need instant damage. Small pulse laser with 3 damage in 0.25 seconds would be superior to Medium laser with 1.25 damage in 0.25 seconds.

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 March 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

I think there is too much strangeness for all the pulse weapons right now. The Large Pulse is actually good, and follows my suggestion (which I made before it was fixed), its only used less because PPCs are also 7 tons.

Pulse Lasers need to deal damage faster, but maybe not even have a higher DPS (depends on how the other changes affect them) They don't need to be hotter, or deal more damage, just have them have a significantly shorter beam time, higher weight and lower range, and perhaps longer cooldown (to maintain the same DPS as now). If Pulses dealt damage faster, but not hotter, more people would use them as weapons that are easier to use, and more effective at close range, for not a lot of investment (I mean only 1 ton for Med Pulse, 2 for Large, and .5 for Small, that's not too much to make the laser easier to use and more effective.)

The Small Pulse Laser falls very short because of how amazing the Medium Laser is. I don't think it has to be done at this point, but someday PGI may want to consider making it weigh 2 tons (3 for Medium Pulse), I'm not saying that this is good or bad or needed, but something along those lines. The Large, Large Pulse, and Small Lasers are all pretty good right now anyway.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

I agree with the OP that it under performs, but I think knocking it up to 4 damage for the same heat as a medium laser would fix it. And maybe .75 tons instead of 1.

[kiltymonroe]

Kmieciu, on 16 March 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

When two fast light mechs duel each other they don't need range, they need instant damage. Small pulse laser with 3 damage in 0.25 seconds would be superior to Medium laser with 1.25 damage in 0.25 seconds.

Right now the SPL gets 1.5 damage in 0.25 seconds, so I guess it's already better than a medium laser! You better start boating them and wrecking people with your pro SPL strat before it becomes FOTM.