32 replies to this topic

[Lumunix]

The hit boxes work as intended on the Raven, they havent changed since closed beta, only now has the "issue" of the Raven having a different silhouette only emerges after ECM has been added. Take a close look at the hit boxes of the raven and you will see that the side torsos and the center torso all converge on the beak, so you know that gut reaction to smack ravens on the beak, yeah your doing them a favor because you are spreading the damage between all three hitzones. My raven runs 38points CT armor, 26 on each side. So effectively I have 90 points of armor you have to go through if all you do is hit the beak. Its like trying to hit the side torso on catapults its difficult, not impossible. The old term of "Know Thy Foe" comes to mind. Its simply put that the pilot is at fault in that you have to be able to identify that mechs have different hitboxes.


The Raven hasn't changed at all since it was placed in the game in late closed beta, ECM was added and that was it, now I see everyone saying that the hitboxes are not right or it should be given a nerf in the engine size (aka bring back the Jenner as the end all light, then complain about the jenner). Take a step back and look at all aspects before crying fowl on a particular mech.

[Deathlike]

Dev update for tomorrow's patch - regarding the Raven:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2076541

[RoboPatton]

The profile is one part of it, but I think the biggest advantage lies with the 3L. ECM adds a huge advantage, and having 2 missile slots for streak with ECM is a deadly *** combination. (we all know this).

Maybe ECM should weigh more? Or Ecm ready mechs should have one less hard-point (generically speaking, I mean, decide case-by-case.)

Traditionally the Raven role was to play outside combat, spotting for LRM, jamming, engaging only when safe etc.. the 3L does all that but can still go toe-to-toe (okay really, foot-to-toe, stomping away on that poor little toe) with another light. Not what the original Raven was meant to do.

Stock it has srm, and NARC in the launchers. Obviously the original design was heading in the right way, but failed to predict the cheese factory they were really building.

[focuspark]

Deathlike, on 18 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Dev update for tomorrow's patch - regarding the Raven:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2076541

Thank god. 5x LL hit a RVN-3L at about 350m for at least 90% of the duration... only managed to take on side torso to yellow. That's 45 pts of damage only removing maybe 10 pts of armor. RVN is broken - looks like the devs finally agree.

[Gevurah]

Deathlike, on 18 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Dev update for tomorrow's patch - regarding the Raven:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2076541

Holy.. Crap.

They listened?!
AWESOME.

[focuspark]

Gevurah, on 18 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Holy.. Crap.

They listened?!
AWESOME.

They tend to do that, but newer plays assume the don't for the following reasons:

• They're overly secretive about what they're actually doing and/or evaluating
  
• They have terrible customer relations (over stretch personnel I think)
  
• They're a rather small company attempting to build a AAA title and they just don't have time to communicate effectively

[Gevurah]

focuspark, on 18 March 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

They tend to do that, but newer plays assume the don't for the following reasons:

• They're overly secretive about what they're actually doing and/or evaluating
  
• They have terrible customer relations (over stretch personnel I think)
  
• They're a rather small company attempting to build a AAA title and they just don't have time to communicate effectively

Oh I agree. I've actually been super satisfied with their email support actually.

That said, it's nice seeing something you bring up get attention instead of brushed off. Any WOW player knows what I'm talking about.

[focuspark]

Gevurah, on 18 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Oh I agree. I've actually been super satisfied with their email support actually.

That said, it's nice seeing something you bring up get attention instead of brushed off. Any WOW player knows what I'm talking about.

To be fair... Blizzard has 10,000,000+ players to consider with WOW where as PGI has something like 250,000 players to consider with MW:O. But yeah, PGI does seem to care more about what people say in general.

[PropagandaWar]

Gevurah, on 14 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

So yeah there's lots of raven tears out there - but are they necessarily invalid? I'm going to say this outright - I'm a spider pilot - and a damn good one. But I know for a fact fighting a raven is a losing proposition. I've even had to come up with deliberate methods on how to kill a raven and even that works only about 30% of the time with my custom raven killing build. No, I'm not going into details. Mind you, that's on generic raven pilots. This doesn't even count people who are actually GOOD with the thing.

So I'm not saying "nerf" the raven. I'm saying "FIX" the raven.

Broken hitboxes - hits don't register or register in bizarre places.
Broken streaks/SRMS (especially against smaller light mechs such as the commando and spider) - see this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...-inside/unread/
AMS is virtually worthless against streaks - Buffing AMS would effectively neutralize the overwhelming advantage ECM provides with streak-bearing mechs

The raven has a good loadout, is a good mech overall, and should be an excellent scout mech. One of my oldest friends has piloted a Raven exclusively in mw4 for nearly a decade and uses it as such. He also was about the only person I ever saw piloting one. Primarily because they weren't broke as **** cheese machines. Competent and capable mechs, sure, but not with power disproportionate to the class.

Fix the bugs on the raven. Fix the hitbox. Fix the streaks. Buff AMS. This will resolve 99% of the Q_Qing about Ravens while bringing it and other mechs of the class in line with what they should be.

Ever wonder why that death's knell you paid money for is a worthless piece of trash except when fighting atlases/etc? People paid money for a mech which is easily outclassed by a *BROKEN* free mech. Fix the stupid POS.

Thanks.

One thing to ponder! Why can AMS detect streaks in an ECM shield when nothing else can? Yeah.............

[Gevurah]

I'm just happy we have:
* Splash damage getting turned off April 2nd until they can fix it (meaning no more disproportionate damage against other light mechs)
* Adjusted hitboxes tomorrow (meaning proper damage incoming to Raven).

All we need is an AMS buff and I'll be flat out of complaints. As it is, I think this might be enough to equalize the light mech field and return Ravens to the realm of harrasser, scout, skirmisher and out of the realm of brawler/striker (Where it never belonged, that's commando/jenner territory).

Edited by Gevurah, 18 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[RoboPatton]

Gevurah, on 18 March 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

As it is, I think this might be enough to equalize the light mech field and return Ravens to the realm of harrasser, scout, skirmisher and out of the realm of brawler/striker (Where it never belonged, that's commando/jenner territory).

Exactly!

[CallMeGunny]

IrrelevantFish, on 15 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

It's not just bugged hit-boxes, it's the hit-boxes themselves. Just look at them and you'll see the following problems:

• Half of the side-torso regions that are visible from the rear are actually counted as front-side torso.
  
• When faced head-on, the long, narrow body is a very small target.
  
• When faced head-on, the torso regions are extraordinarily thin.
  
• When viewed from the side, significant portions of the side torsos are shielded by the arms.

Now make it Streak-proof and capable of traveling at 150kph with a funky-chicken walk that bobs the torso all over the place and moves the legs in an extraordinarily eccentric fashion and try to kill it. What do you think will happen? Without god-like precision, most shots aimed at the legs will go right between them and those to the upper region will be spread out so much across the torsos, cockpit, and arms that they might as well be a single component with 140 points of frontal armor and 87 points of internal structure.



IMO, that explains far more of the Raven's outrageous durability than buggy code.

Now THIS is a legitimate complaint.

However in saying this, you have to realize most cries of "bugged hitboxes" are actually "appropriate hitboxes."

While not my favorite mech, I do pilot a Raven-3L when I want something to hit and run.. And I'll give you a tip:
Rear CT, Hips (anywhere.) You just 4 shotted a Raven.

Oh, and SRM6 with crap accuracy. Can't tell you how many times I've watched the missiles fly past me, only to die anyways.

[IrrelevantFish]

CallMeGunny, on 19 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

However in saying this, you have to realize most cries of "bugged hitboxes" are actually "appropriate hitboxes."

I do. While there are definitely instances of Ravens not taking damage anywhere upon being hit, I've seen this happen with other chassis, as well. It's possible that it's happened more to Ravens than others, but I yes, I doubt it.

CallMeGunny, on 19 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

While not my favorite mech, I do pilot a Raven-3L when I want something to hit and run.

The problem is that Ravens aren't supposed to be hit and run mechs. That's what Jenners are for, and they're good at it. Having a light that's not only better at drive-bys but far more durable and capable of shutting down an entire team's ability to both attack with and defend against LRMs is just ridiculous.

CallMeGunny, on 19 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

And I'll give you a tip:
Rear CT, Hips (anywhere.) You just 4 shotted a Raven.

Two problems with that: first, that's still a very small target on a belly-dancing mech doing 150kph, and second, it's a target you can't see if you're up close and looking down from a tall mech.

CallMeGunny, on 19 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Oh, and SRM6 with crap accuracy. Can't tell you how many times I've watched the missiles fly past me, only to die anyways.

That's what lag looks like with server-authoritative net-code. The opposite occurs just as often. There have been plenty of times I've been smacked by insert-insta-death-weapon-here and taken no damage from it.

Edited by IrrelevantFish, 20 March 2013 - 07:29 AM.