52 replies to this topic

[SC1P1O]

Is anyone annoyed by people boating 4 ppcs without struggling with heat much?

[Yokaiko]

SC1P1O, on 13 March 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Is anyone annoyed by people boating 4 ppcs without struggling with heat much?

Oh?

Do you see this on anything south of an assault chassis? Considering they are knocking their damage rating into the medium range (for really I have 3-4 mediums with more firepower) to get enough heatsinks to run 4 STANDARD PPCs (the ones with min ranges) I'd call it a fair trade off.

Assaults are supposed to be relatively scary.

[Idolo]

40 pinpoint damage might hurt but it comes with serious restrictions, you can only fire 2ish times before overheating. Now i dont have the exact numbers at hand but if you look at it from a dps point of view there are alot of mech configurations that can dish out far more hurt.

Edited by Idolo, 13 March 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Idolo, on 13 March 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

40 pinpoint damage might hurt but it comes with serious restrictions, you can only fire 2ish times before overheating. Now i dont have the exact numbers at hand but if you look at it from a dps point of view there are alot of mech configurations that can dish out far more hurt.

Ironically the best PPC carrier is the Atlas RS with SHS....its the most cooling you can jam on a mech.....for like 4 alphas before cooking.

Edited by Yokaiko, 13 March 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Culler]

Fact: no one mounts 4 PPCs and doesn't struggle with heat such that they can fire all day long. There aren't enough crit slots/tonnage on any mech for it. An Atlas with a standard 200 engine and stripped down armor can fit the 4 PPCs and fill every single crit slot with heat sinks (43 single heat sinks, which is more heat dissipation than the maximum amount of doubles) and with all the pilot efficiencies can only shoot 4 times in a row without overheating. That's the maximum possible cooling for 4 PPCs, and that makes a terrible mech.

There are 3 mech chassis you will see 4 PPCs used effectively on: Atlas, Stalker, and Cataphract. Very few of them can fire their PPCs more than 3 times in a row, and that's typically only if they have no secondary weaponry. The Cataphract from experience will overheat on the third volley in a row. The most dangerous is probably the Atlas RS with 4 PPCs and Gauss. It still runs incredibly hot but has a pretty scary 55 damage long range alpha. It's still very vulnerable to mechs in its face.

If someone is mounting 4 PPCs, charge them while dodging and torso twisting, preferably from cover. They will overheat and be very sad, very quickly.

[Idolo]

Yokaiko, on 13 March 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Ironically the best PPC carrier is the Atlas RS with SHS....its the most cooling you can jam on a mech.....for like 4 alphas before cooking.

I have one in my mech bay although it's a 4xpcc + gauss, it's fun to drive and all but i would hardly call it a terror on the field, sure when you hit it hurts but it has no real versatility.

[Yokaiko]

Idolo, on 13 March 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

I have one in my mech bay although it's a 4xpcc + gauss, it's fun to drive and all but i would hardly call it a terror on the field, sure when you hit it hurts but it has no real versatility.

Neither does any other 4+ PPC carrier. They are toasters that hurt from a long range.

[AC]

If flamers actually did what they were suppose to.... add heat.

[MeatForBrains]

No, because if you know how to aim, the large laser is better.

[silentD11]

Culler, on 13 March 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Fact: no one mounts 4 PPCs and doesn't struggle with heat such that they can fire all day long. There aren't enough crit slots/tonnage on any mech for it. An Atlas with a standard 200 engine and stripped down armor can fit the 4 PPCs and fill every single crit slot with heat sinks (43 single heat sinks, which is more heat dissipation than the maximum amount of doubles) and with all the pilot efficiencies can only shoot 4 times in a row without overheating. That's the maximum possible cooling for 4 PPCs, and that makes a terrible mech.

There are 3 mech chassis you will see 4 PPCs used effectively on: Atlas, Stalker, and Cataphract. Very few of them can fire their PPCs more than 3 times in a row, and that's typically only if they have no secondary weaponry. The Cataphract from experience will overheat on the third volley in a row. The most dangerous is probably the Atlas RS with 4 PPCs and Gauss. It still runs incredibly hot but has a pretty scary 55 damage long range alpha. It's still very vulnerable to mechs in its face.

If someone is mounting 4 PPCs, charge them while dodging and torso twisting, preferably from cover. They will overheat and be very sad, very quickly.

I think it's relative. Notice the OP said "much" that's a term with some wiggle room. It doesn't mean "can alpha all day long with no worries, oh yeah". Given the amount of time it can take to adjust your aim in various positions, especially at the ideal distance. You can use a fair amount of PPCs without worrying all that much about heat. A lot of the dissipation is done by the time you get your next shot.

I don't really find it obnoxious. But you're missing that the OP deliberatly qualified what he was saying, and acting like it's alphas all day long.

[SC1P1O]

For me its that the combined range and if used smart, PPC are very powerful pinpoint alpha damage, The ac20 cat is limited to a 400m range, its slow and squishy. A 4ppc Stalker or RS is maneuverable, not to squishy and really beats a k2 for range.

And you might say just use cover to attack a 4 ppc boat, but they usually position themselves so you have to come at them from a 200m open space if not more that's enough for at least 3 alphas, i Just feel for the range to damage and accuracy ratio PPC don't generate overly much heat. Not to mention they have a higher fire rate of ac20s

The only thing i can think of to counter is LRMS but in order to use them effectively you will need a light, and i find its very easy to kill lights in a ppc boat.

Edited by SC1P1O, 13 March 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Chaos7]

Nope, not an issue - PPCs are not designed to be standalone weapons and have serious drawbacks. No need to point them out you know what they are. Boating will just stack the drawbacks.

[SC1P1O]

Then if its so many drawbacks, why do you see so many of the boats, Its like the A1 people liked it cuz you could boat srm6 now its the ppc craze, and turning into lrm craze again. This boating is frustrating because thiers no drawbacks to it. I would like to see builds that are jack of all trades, i feel boating something should not equal amazing mech.

[Bilbo]

SC1P1O, on 13 March 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

For me its that the combined range and if used smart, PPC are very powerful pinpoint alpha damage, The ac20 cat is limited to a 400m range, its slow and squishy. A 4ppc Stalker or RS is maneuverable, not to squishy and really beats a k2 for range.

And you might say just use cover to attack a 4 ppc boat, but they usually position themselves so you have to come at them from a 200m open space if not more that's enough for at least 3 alphas, i Just feel for the range to damage and accuracy ratio PPC don't generate overly much heat. Not to mention they have a higher fire rate of ac20s

The only thing i can think of to counter is LRMS but in order to use them effectively you will need a light, and i find its very easy to kill lights in a ppc boat.

In what world is the Atlas and Stalker maneuverable?

[SC1P1O]

Compared to a k2 ac20 cat with a std 200
you can run 300s in both stalkers and the RS, also with higher armor you can make one or 2 more mistakes than in a k2, Not to mention the ac20 are ct on the k2 and in the arms for the other builds meaning your less likely to lose them. That is of course if you keep your shoulders.

[hashinshin]

SC1P1O, on 13 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Then if its so many drawbacks, why do you see so many of the boats, Its like the A1 people liked it cuz you could boat srm6 now its the ppc craze, and turning into lrm craze again. This boating is frustrating because thiers no drawbacks to it. I would like to see builds that are jack of all trades, i feel boating something should not equal amazing mech.

the drawback to PPC boats is:

Missing means you lose like 4 seconds of damage for nothing
Being not-so-good on hot maps, and useless inside volcanoes.
Being close to an enemy.

[SC1P1O]

In addition the greater range at which you can operate allows you to more easily see the flow of battle and move to a safer position with more time, at higher or equal velocities.

hashinshin, on 13 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

the drawback to PPC boats is:

Missing means you lose like 4 seconds of damage for nothing
Being not-so-good on hot maps, and useless inside volcanoes.
Being close to an enemy.

That's true, but most people using these Mechs are decent shots, plus in an organized 4 man group you can use them to great effect in combo with lrms stalker boats.

[LordBraxton]

MeatForBrains, on 13 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

No, because if you know how to aim, the large laser is better.

err I Like large lasers a lot but being forced to stare at the enemy while firing them is a liability, I can snap fire a PPC and look away or get behind cover.

Really these weapons are too different to compare

[Culler]

SC1P1O, on 13 March 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

And you might say just use cover to attack a 4 ppc boat, but they usually position themselves so you have to come at them from a 200m open space if not more that's enough for at least 3 alphas,

If you can't cross 200m in 9 seconds, your mech is too slow. If you can't cross 400m in 9 seconds, your mech is too slow. Granted, no one wants to take 80 damage on the way in. If you can't reach a PPC mech in 5 seconds, you're either too slow or engaging in a bad place. Make them come to you, because there are no objectives in the middle of nowhere where they could get a field of fire like that.

Personally I think the boomcat is way more dangerous than 4x PPCs because it can keep firing and has no minimum range.

[MrPenguin]

MeatForBrains, on 13 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

No, because if you know how to aim, the large laser is better.

But less fun.