463 replies to this topic

[Waverider]

I have no problem with boats. And I never understood this "fear" for them. If my team find one we just call for focus fire on the ******* and pronto, "boat problem" solved.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Blah, blah, cannon, blah, blah theoretical numbers, blah blah.

In the end the question is, what do we want to see when we play the game? What is the real game impact of boats?

It's not a matter of whether the numbers work, or if some random *** catapult had SRM 6's (Note that these mechs were suppose to be exceptions, not the rule).

And also keep in mind that there were a few mechs here and there with crazy 8 medium laser load outs, but no 2 LRM 15's and 4 MLas is not a boat.

This is about...do we want people wandering around with 6 ppc's and nothing else, hitting one button and coring people.

Or walking around with 5 or 6 LRM's, hitting one button.

Or walking around with 6 SRM 6's and hitting one button.

Do we like this concept?

It's not about lore, tabletop, etc.

It's just, is that style of play right for this game?

I'm personally of a mind that you might as well go play COD at that point.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 15 March 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[3rdworld]

bads complain about the mech not the pilot.

An enemy did not kill you because of his mech. He killed you because you made a mistake or he is better.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

bads complain about the mech not the pilot.

An enemy did not kill you because of his mech. He killed you because you made a mistake or he is better.

People having a discussion about the mechanics of the game, and what will to lead to it lasting a long time and profitable is not always complaining.

I'm interested in the health of the game.

Is it healthy for the game long-term to have splatcats and ppc stalkers and 3x LRM 15's atlases with ECM?

Nope not in my opinion.

[xDeityx]

GrimDeath, on 14 March 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

I would like to see an matchmaker option to be able to drop in stock mechs only. It would probably be a ghost town, but one I'd like to see anyway.

I wish we had an option to drop like big boys and play for keeps. Hardcore mode - if it explodes, it's gone. They would need a whole different economy for that mode but I think it's how the game should have been from the get-go. It's in the spirit of BT more and would introduce balance (prices for assets would actually mean something) and fun (a poker game for $100 is more fun than a poker game for $1). They could even do salvage that was actually meaningful and engaging with a mode like that.

[Mycrus]

nothing wrong with boating...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

xDeityx, on 15 March 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I wish we had an option to drop like big boys and play for keeps. Hardcore mode - if it explodes, it's gone. They would need a whole different economy for that mode but I think it's how the game should have been from the get-go. It's in the spirit of BT more and would introduce balance (prices for assets would actually mean something) and fun (a poker game for $100 is more fun than a poker game for $1). They could even do salvage that was actually meaningful and engaging with a mode like that.

Honestly, I think a hardcore mode and a stock mode would do wonders for this game.

Especially throwing salvage into the mix.

[Gaan Cathal]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

In the end the question is, what do we want to see when we play the game? What is the real game impact of boats?

It's not a matter of whether the numbers work, or if some random *** catapult had SRM 6's (Note that these mechs were suppose to be exceptions, not the rule).

And also keep in mind that there were a few mechs here and there with crazy 8 medium laser load outs, but no 2 LRM 15's and 4 MLas is not a boat.

This is about...do we want people wandering around with 6 ppc's and nothing else, hitting one button and coring people.

Boats are the exception, people just like to wail and whine about them like they're a plague of SRM-toting locusts. Boats that actually happen are generally:

Catapults. Designed to boat.
Hunchbacks. Again, this is by design, and not actually very effective.
6 PPC Stalkers. Yes, it can core one mech in a shot. If it cores a second one, you're doing it wrong. It's a novelty mech and not actually useful.

[Sheraf]

There is nothing wrong with boating, just find their weakness and exploit it.

[NRP]

I must say I find all this "people should not be allowed to boat" talk to be self righteous and just lame in general. You should not dictate how someone else chooses to equip his/her mech or plays the game. Get over yourselves already.

[Zyllos]

Boats on mechs that where not meant to be boats is the symptom of bad weapon convergence.

If a mech has a large number of any number of hardpoints, then players will attempt to use those hardpoints to use all the same weaponry if they all hit the same location.

If all those weapons did not hit the same location, I am sure that many of those players would stop using many different weapons of the same type/range because then individual locations/weapons that perform well would be more important than finding weapons which has the best DPS/HPS.

This is also why anytime a boat gets released into the game, it is immediately brought to the top of the meta game ladder. This is also why the competative community boats weapons, it's easier to localized all your damage when you have the same weapons all targeting a single point.

Weapon convergence is MWO's public enemy number one right now.

Edited by Zyllos, 15 March 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[OpCentar]

Couldn't read all the replies so I might have skipped someone mentioning the most simple fix for boating - exponential heat buildup upon firing identical weapon systems.


6xSRM6 A1? sure go right ahead, fire all those at once you'll be at 90% heat.


The basis is introducing a heat penalty for boaters, how to execute it is up for debate and reliant on gameplay balance. It could be a simple have more than x identical weapons for y heat penalty, or it could be a more complex version which includes weapon specifics and whether they are alpha, chain, or individually fired.

[Sheraf]

OpCentar, on 15 March 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Couldn't read all the replies so I might have skipped someone mentioning the most simple fix for boating - exponential heat buildup upon firing identical weapon systems.


6xSRM6 A1? sure go right ahead, fire all those at once you'll be at 90% heat.


The basis is introducing a heat penalty for boaters, how to execute it is up for debate and reliant on gameplay balance. It could be a simple have more than x identical weapons for y heat penalty, or it could be a more complex version which includes weapon specifics and whether they are alpha, chain, or individually fired.

That will kill the Hunchback 4P. I think we just need better map, that discourage this type of build, and encourage more balance build.

[Vodrin Thales]

KhanCipher, on 14 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

the head of the Longbow, Naginata, Archer, and Catapult familys are sending their... "messangers" to tell you how wrong you are.

or that you didn't seem to play TT...

You forgot the Crusader.

[Yokaiko]

More big maps and adjustements to the game modes (time to cap and such) would end boating.

People are only running slow *** brawlers because there is basically no downside. In the case of the A1 its a not so slow *** brawler, but is extremely range limited.

...which could be exploited more easily on bigger than shoebox maps.

[IIIuminaughty]

Scrubs always complain about something...

[Zyllos]

OpCentar, on 15 March 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Couldn't read all the replies so I might have skipped someone mentioning the most simple fix for boating - exponential heat buildup upon firing identical weapon systems.


6xSRM6 A1? sure go right ahead, fire all those at once you'll be at 90% heat.


The basis is introducing a heat penalty for boaters, how to execute it is up for debate and reliant on gameplay balance. It could be a simple have more than x identical weapons for y heat penalty, or it could be a more complex version which includes weapon specifics and whether they are alpha, chain, or individually fired.

Boats themselves are not the issue...weapon convergence allowing the ability of boats to be magnified is the issue.

[OpCentar]

Sheraf, on 15 March 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

That will kill the Hunchback 4P. I think we just need better map, that discourage this type of build, and encourage more balance build.

No it wouldn't if you didn't boat 9xMLas or whatever that popular build is.

Mix LL, ML and some other energy weapons and you wouldn't get any heat penalty.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gaan Cathal, on 15 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Boats are the exception, people just like to wail and whine about them like they're a plague of SRM-toting locusts. Boats that actually happen are generally:

Catapults. Designed to boat.
Hunchbacks. Again, this is by design, and not actually very effective.
6 PPC Stalkers. Yes, it can core one mech in a shot. If it cores a second one, you're doing it wrong. It's a novelty mech and not actually useful.

"Designed to boat".

What does that mean? As I said, this game throws things out the window with mech design because it allows for unlimited customization.

One SRM/6 Catapult for a specific person, that only has 4 SRM/6's, does not a boat make.

The most common variant of the Hunchback via all of the books, etc. was the AC/20 hunchback.

I think you guys grasp at straws when you are like "OH HEY GUYS LOOK SOME RANDOM PERSON CREATED ONE VERSION OF THE HUNCHBACK WITH 8 MEDIUM LASERS THAT WAS ALMOST NEVER USED, BOATING IS GREAT".

[Sheraf]

OpCentar, on 15 March 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

No it wouldn't if you didn't boat 9xMLas or whatever that popular build is.

Mix LL, ML and some other energy weapons and you wouldn't get any heat penalty.

It is the stock configuration.