463 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

The Raven is a complete anomaly in this game caused by two completed ****** up mechanics.

Honestly I'd be happy if PGI just deleted the whole Raven line of mechs at this point.

What, you think laser/SSRM Jenner wasn't viable before ECM? And how about the DDC? Or most poptarts? (or, really, pretty much any competitive phract config for that matter.) Or the Centurion?

[Mackman]

Zyllos, on 15 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Ask and you shall receive!

1: This is purely a cosmetic thing. PGI has already stated that this will be fixed cosmetically as it applies to missiles: Equipping more missiles will result in more tubes being added to the model. There's no reason not to think it won't be applied to everything else. You're asking for something which was instituted because of looks to drastically affect gameplay, to which i say no.

2: I may be wrong, but isn't this exactly how arm actuators work right now? Isn't that why the Catapults and Stalkers can't move their arms horizontally--because they're missing the proper actuators?

3: Do you know what would happen if they did this? It either wouldn't make enough of a difference, or people would just find the next best boat that retains convergence (for instance, the 4-PPC Stalker wouldn't be affected at all by this).

[3rdworld]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Boating is easy because you hit one button.

Here is the basic splatcat attack "Sneak up on mech=>Put target reticle over mech=>Click Mouse=>Done".

Here is a balanced loud out attack "Try and circle to make sure your gun arm can shoot mech=>Keep eye on cooldown's of 3 different weapon types=>Line up so that you can hit with torso weapons and arm weapons=>note when you can only hit with arm weapons=>hit mouse 1, 2 or 3 depending on situation=>note strengths of opposing mech and perhaps try and manuver into medium to long range to give yourself an advantage."

You don't have to take any of those things into account with splatcats.

No a balanced build does this: line up shot press trigger. No different or inherently harder than the splat.

Your description shows your bias.

Royalewithcheese, on 15 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

What, you think laser/SSRM Jenner wasn't viable before ECM? And how about the DDC? Or most poptarts? (or, really, pretty much any competitive phract config for that matter.) Or the Centurion?

He isn't thinking things through.

He was alphad by a splat and now believes all mechs are boats.

Saw a post earlier that said dual gauss is a boat. 2 weapons is apparently enough to make a boat out of things.

[Royalewithcheese]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

No a balanced build does this: line up shot press trigger. No different or inherently harder than the splat.

what are you talking about man it takes all my pr0 kerensky-tier gunnery skill to move the crosshair over my target's CT and press my RMB and Spacebar at the same time

[OneEyed Jack]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Boating is easy because you hit one button.

Here is the basic splatcat attack "Sneak up on mech=>Put target reticle over mech=>Click Mouse=>Done".

Here is a balanced loud out attack "Try and circle to make sure your gun arm can shoot mech=>Keep eye on cooldown's of 3 different weapon types=>Line up so that you can hit with torso weapons and arm weapons=>note when you can only hit with arm weapons=>hit mouse 1, 2 or 3 depending on situation=>note strengths of opposing mech and perhaps try and manuver into medium to long range to give yourself an advantage."

You don't have to take any of those things into account with splatcats.

Wrong. I can play multiple weapon types and pay absolutely no attention to the cooldowns. If I can keep my target, I can simply assign a single weapon group and hold down one button. Or, i could just click one button while on target and whatever is ready will fire. And if you pay attention to the words in your own post that I've italicized, you could defeat boats instead of whining on the boards.

@ Those advocating removal of weapon convergence:
This could have some effect, but would do nothing about the Splatcat (the most complained about boat) since all it's weapons are in the arms, unless you're suggesting arms not be able to converge either.
I'd be less-inclined to argue the point, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense. Basic screw adjustment has been around since black powder cannons were in use, and with the use of hydraulic screw adjusters (I'm sure there's name for them, but I'm not going to look it up) there's absolutely no reason that torso weapons couldn't converge, with the possible exception of point-blank range, due to the more extreme angles.

[MaddMaxx]

Gaan Cathal, on 15 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

snip

The word on the street is not supported by data.

And that Data is a false reporting based on the Dev response to said Data coming out of the Training area. So I stand by my, second handed, statement. I can link you in to Pauls if you'd like.

Unless, of course, you can link us into the thread that shows a listing of ALL splashing weapons.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 March 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Yokaiko]

OneEyed Jack, on 15 March 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Wrong. I can play multiple weapon types and pay absolutely no attention to the cooldowns. If I can keep my target, I can simply assign a single weapon group and hold down one button. Or, i could just click one button while on target and whatever is ready will fire. And if you pay attention to the words in your own post that I've italicized, you could defeat boats instead of whining on the boards.

@ Those advocating removal of weapon convergence:
This could have some effect, but would do nothing about the Splatcat (the most complained about boat) since all it's weapons are in the arms, unless you're suggesting arms not be able to converge either.
I'd be less-inclined to argue the point, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense. Basic screw adjustment has been around since black powder cannons were in use, and with the use of hydraulic screw adjusters (I'm sure there's name for them, but I'm not going to look it up) there's absolutely no reason that torso weapons couldn't converge, with the possible exception of point-blank range, due to the more extreme angles.

Who said I gave a damn about splatcats.

[MaddMaxx]

3rdworld, on 15 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

bads complain about the mech not the pilot.

An enemy did not kill you because of his mech. He killed you because you made a mistake or he is better.

Actually, if your enemy is running a Streak or SRM based boat, they are getting multiple time the damage they should, as opposed to your non Streak or SRM based Mech.

That being the case, many a good pilot would have survived many of the initial encounters with these enemies, thus having extra time in order to re-adjust to those bugged "surprise!" load outs and taken the appropriate measures to counter.

Getting insta-gimped has currently nothing to do with the enemy pilot, other that they selected a very out of whack SRM or Streak Boat.

I say, let's fix the problem and and see how all those supposed Leet pilots fair after that...

P.S. One can only imagine the QQ'ing and whining as the Boats and their drivers K/D ratio plummet like the 2008 Stock market when they don't get 4X the damage they should. It will be priceless. LOL

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 March 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

My Spider boats 2 Medium Pulse Lasers...

Boats are not efficient builds, they are easy to use builds.

Ballistics are too heavy to boat
Lasers use too much heat to boat

A good balance is required such as the Gauss + ERPPC CTF-3D poptart. It isn't a boat, but then again it is boating 3 long range sniper weapons. But they have different projectile speeds and one of them is probably on the arm so there are convergence issues to manage also.

A 4ERPPC stalker compared to the poptart doesn't have to worry about different projectile speeds. It DOES have to worry a lot more about overheating...

[Syllogy]

The Garth Disagrees:

Garth Erlam, on 26 February 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

To highlight this, the top three 'builds' of the game don't stack the same weapons - in fact, many of the top 5 utilize 3+ different weapon types.



I can confirm that this is entirely untrue. Four ML/2SRM4 Jenny D going 150 KPH has, wait for it, 11 DHS - and that's if you have only 1 JJ. Also, this build has less than 10 seconds of fire before it totally overheats. Hell, that's worse heat efficiency than my 2A. On Caustic, you could literally alpha once in the caldera and be in the red.

So unless you have some mystery Jenny-D build I call shenanigans on this.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The devs do not understand their own game at all. That's been realized over and over in the last month.

Just to clarify:

At a minimum 4 months of balancing around broken missile splash damage.

4 months of ignoring ECM's stupid place in this game.

Introducing consumables with the MC version being better.

Introducing a heat dissipation consumable after saying things like my signature quote.

Messing up Ask the Devs AGAIN.

I mean seriously, these guys are brutalizing this IP.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 15 March 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Dishevel]

Title: Game needs to address boating.
Answer: No. It does not.

[FerretGR]

Just remember, OP, that any attempt at boating requires a trade-off when it comes to multi-purposing. Every boat has a weakness, and a strength... just avoid the strength and focus on the weakness. Make them fight your fight, don't fight their fight.

I personally hope they never limit boating in this game. I see absolutely no reason why they should.

[OneEyed Jack]

MaddMaxx, on 15 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

And that Data is a false reporting based on the Dev response to said Data coming out of the Training area. So I stand by my, second handed, statement. I can link you in to Pauls if you'd like.

Unless, of course, you can link us into the thread that shows a listing of ALL splashing weapons.

False? False!?! Are you completely unable to read? OH, no. No need for you to link it. Here it is.

And just so you don't have to wade through all that actual information for me to point out how much you're either wrong or lying to support your argument, I'll quote the part that demonstrates it.

Paul Inouye, on 14 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Second, this does NOT eliminate the findings that S-SRMs AND SRMs are doing more damage than intended.

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Who said I gave a damn about splatcats.

You aren't the only one who's suggested it. It's not always about you.

[Syllogy]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

The devs do not understand their own game at all. That's been realized over and over in the last month.

Please, enlighten us with your extensive knowledge.

Remember to quote facts and real data from a point of knowledge, not assumption.

[Gaan Cathal]

MaddMaxx, on 15 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

And that Data is a false reporting based on the Dev response to said Data coming out of the Training area. So I stand by my, second handed, statement. I can link you in to Pauls if you'd like.

My response was probably too brief. As it stands we don't know the degree to which splash damage is affecting LRMs. According to Paul there is some damage report inflation in testing grounds, but the damage reports in the same test were normalised against medium lasers, suggesting there is some damage inflation in LRMs compared with MLAS. It is, of course, entirely possible that this damage inflation is entirely due to Testing Grounds bugs. My working assumption at this point is that either:

a: LRMs do not employ splash damage, damage is correct and the TG damage reporting bug is somehow affecting them more than MLAS

b: LRMs do employ splash damage, in which case there is no reason to believe different code is being used, and their damage is likely inflated

I do think that it's posing less of a problem with LRMs since dense-hitbox mechs like the Commando are less prone to being hit by them. They might be inflating damage against the Stalker, due to the hitbox density at LRM strike angle, but frankly LRMs will always rip Stalkers to pieces due to hitbox placement, so it's difficult to ascertain.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Syllogy, on 15 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

Please, enlighten us with your extensive knowledge.

Remember to quote facts and real data from a point of knowledge, not assumption.

Read above edit.

Defending the devs is like defending the guys who made Spiderman 3.

Taking something established over so many years (IE Venom or Mechwarrior), and making sure to try and do their best to kill it.

[MaddMaxx]

OneEyed Jack, on 15 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

False? False!?! Are you completely unable to read? OH, no. No need for you to link it. Here it is.

And just so you don't have to wade through all that actual information for me to point out how much you're either wrong or lying to support your argument, I'll quote the part that demonstrates it.

You aren't the only one who's suggested it. It's not always about you.

Excuse me? Paul stated the data gathered in the Training grounds was BOGUS, then he went on to state that yes, their is a "Splash" application issue.

Any data collected via the Training grounds is still BOGUS!

You might want to relax with your BS rhetoric, at least until you get it right btw.

[Royalewithcheese]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Read above edit.

Defending the devs is like defending the guys who made Spiderman 3.

Taking something established over so many years (IE Venom or Mechwarrior), and making sure to try and do their best to kill it.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with 8xMdLas > 2xSRM6/4xMdLas tho.

[Syllogy]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 15 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Just to clarify:

• At a minimum 4 months of balancing around broken missile splash damage.
  
• 4 months of ignoring ECM's stupid place in this game.
  
• Introducing consumables with the MC version being better.
  
• Introducing a heat dissipation consumable after saying things like my signature quote.
  
• Messing up Ask the Devs AGAIN.
  
• I mean seriously, these guys are brutalizing this IP.

I'll knock out every one of those.

• The missile pattern is easy to adjust, since it is now a CVAR
  
• They have stated over and over that they are looking at ECM, and also said that they are making adjustments that are coming up.
  
• The Consumables are now equal, both C-Bill and MC Versions
  
• The quote you have was stated in the context of having a feature that would allow repeated uses of Coolant in a single match. The current build does not allow this.
  
• There was a ton of useful information in Ask the Devs
  
• They care much more about the Mechwarrior IP than Microsoft did when they released MechAssault.

Please try again. But this time, use facts and empirical evidence please.

Edited by Syllogy, 15 March 2013 - 07:58 AM.