44 replies to this topic

[Congzilla]

Moonsavage, on 15 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Gyro
The torsion between the turning components is compensated for by the mech's Gyro.

Thank you.

Not true, the gyro is there for balance while on the ground.

[Waverider]

Mechs have massive gyros....

[Waverider]

Congzilla, on 15 March 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Not true, the gyro is there for balance while on the ground.

Gyros also works for countering the twist is is done with actual "self balance" robots now. Simple physics.

IF you have two counter rotating gyros and change the relative speed of them then you can turn in the air without JJ our avoid the legs to turn. Most satellites control are made with gyros and not thrusters for example.

[Nightfangs]

I would say "gyro", too. It's not that far fetched and perfectly possible.

[Congzilla]

Waverider, on 15 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Gyros also works for countering the twist is is done with actual "self balance" robots now. Simple physics.

IF you have two counter rotating gyros and change the relative speed of them then you can turn in the air without JJ our avoid the legs to turn. Most satellites control are made with gyros and not thrusters for example.

TT did it better, you couldn't torso twist mid-air, you could change facing. If you look at the angle that the jets shoot out they would always push up and forward towards where the CT is facing. So if you torso twist you should actually start moving in that direction.

[LordDante]

Waverider, on 15 March 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Mechs have massive gyros....

i love gyros !

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Oh look, another 'realism' topic about a Space 80's video game!
YAAAAAAAY, I love these!

Let me answer the original question;
Because it's a freaking video game.

[Escef]

Congzilla, on 15 March 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Not true, the gyro is there for balance while on the ground.

Yes, because gyros are incapable of operation if the mech leaves the ground... :|

Seriously, Cong, come back when you know WTF you're talking about.

[Vilheim]

Waverider, on 15 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Gyros also works for countering the twist is is done with actual "self balance" robots now. Simple physics.

IF you have two counter rotating gyros and change the relative speed of them then you can turn in the air without JJ our avoid the legs to turn. Most satellites control are made with gyros and not thrusters for example.

Ha, I don't know if discussions of angular momentum and the word "simple" should go together... it's not exactly simple physics to those who have never studied it.

But thanks anyways for pointing out that the gyros can be used! Because of this, a mech should be able to twist freely in the air by quickly spinning the gyroscope in the opposite direction. No need for thrusters to achieve this. If I remember correctly, spacecraft do this all the time.

[Urdnot Mau]

Guys... i don't think you get him xD This is actually kinda funny. The thing is... of course they can twist! the problem is TURNING. haha Well... the say i see it it's pretty much impossible for a human in space to SPIN, you know ?

[Lukoi Banacek]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Myomers

'Mech muscles allow for it. They allow for the torso twist and the stabilization.

[Helbourne]

Congzilla, on 15 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Don't even bring TT into a jumping discussion. If you used TT rules for jumping, you would have to disallow the firing of weapons mid air and make weapons harder to aim for a short period after landing. Jumping incurs the largest to-hit penalty in TT and the actual jump ends before the weapon fire phase so poptarting would be impossible since you would have to land before you can fire.

Also, facing changes are part of the movement phase (and cost extra movement to perform), torso twist is part of the weapon fire phase. They are two different things.

Just to confuse some people a bit more about TT. Each phase for each player happens simultaneously. Sure each side rolls at different times, but if you were watching the battle take place all actions are simultaneous (everyone is moving, everyone is firing).

So if you wanted to allow it with 'home rules' you could do 'poptarting'. If your mech has a jump of 3, that means you can jump up 3 levels (up and over a level 2 hill). Just if the mechs on the ground on the other side of the hill should be able to shoot who ever is 'poptarting' if their facing in the correct direction.

[Pht]

Twisting in midair is easy. all they have to do is activate the proper myomers and/or motors.

Changing facing in midair in a controlled manner is done either with they gyroscope or jumpjet feathering control.

Edited by Pht, 15 March 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Godsbrother]

Turning must be all jumpjet because i'm fairly sure that when the juice runs out you can't turn in midair

[Lykaon]

Helecopters use rotors to alter air flow to produce lift.The rotors cause the torque that needs to be countered by the tail rotors or other stabilizers.

Mechs do not use rotors to alter air flow to produce lift they use a simple principal of push hard until it goes by applying direct opposed thrust.Using directed thrust does not create torque like a rotor does.
The way you can make a very non aerodynamic object fly is push it hard enough to counter opposing forces that do not want it to fly (gravity,drag/wind resistance)

A better comparesen for a mech in mid jump would be a Harrier jet that uses directed thrust to gain lift.The Harrier changes direction and facing by altering the aplication and direction of the thrust.

[IceCase88]

I doubt many of you can jump in the air long enough to twist your torso.... FATTIES!

I do not have a problem with the torso twisting so much. My problem is the use off ballistics, missiles, and PPCs while in flight. These weapons should have recoil and alter your flight pattern causing damage to legs upon landing or cause the mech to fall over. The altered flight pattern should cause a rough landing.

[CCODEZ]

IceCase88, on 15 March 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

I do not have a problem with the torso twisting so much. My problem is the use off ballistics, missiles, and PPCs while in flight. These weapons should have recoil and alter your flight pattern causing damage to legs upon landing or cause the mech to fall over. The altered flight pattern should cause a rough landing.

I agree with this person. Although applying real world physics is a bad idea, I don't see any problem with weapons being hazardous to fire while JJ'ing due to recoil effects. Afterall, your mech isn't on the ground to counter act this, gryo or not.

Also would kill pop tarting, which is just lame.

[Mike Townsend]

Look, physics nerd. We get that the gyro is in the torso and technically torso twisting during a fall (without jump jets, which could apply rotation and do, by tt rules) would actually turn the legs, but that would be weird and un fun. And this is a game. And games are supposed to be fun.

[Livewyr]

I think he means "Why is it just as effective as it is on ground?" (meaning in the air your torso would go half way in one direction, and your legs halfway in the other.. or some ratio according to their masses)

[Phaesphoros]

AC/20 bullet weight estimation: 7 t ammo / ton => max 150 kg
AC/20 bullet speed: 900 m/s
AC/20 bullet impulse: max 135,000 kg*m/s (p = m*v)

Poptart weight: 70,000 kg
Poptart max speed from AC/20 recoil: 2 m/s = 7 km/h
(You can also build Recoilless guns, they even had them in crazy BT universe.)

Dunno why you think gyro wouldn't help, theoretically you could build it in such a way to allow torso twist and leg turning the way it is now. (As it has already been stated, conservation of angular momentum.)

Edited by Phaesphoros, 18 March 2013 - 07:36 AM.