29 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

We played full rolls, and more than one mech was demolished wholesale by a single LRM20 volley.

If you were running something goofy like we see the Stalkers flinging 60 at a time, odds are that you would single volley most mechs short of assaults, and you had about a 50% chance of killing a hundred tonner under that sort of pounding. Remember half armor, four sets of missiles hitting a heavy's side torso would likely blow it off.

Hell in TT if you hit a 55 ton mech with an AC20 at all it was most likely the end of the game for it.

[Koshirou]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

If you were running something goofy like we see the Stalkers flinging 60 at a time, odds are that you would single volley most mechs short of assaults, and you had about a 50% chance of killing a hundred tonner under that sort of pounding.

No. You did not. BattleTech works with die rolls and probabilities, and it's relatively easy to calculate how likely it is for, say 2xLRM15 + 2xLRM15 hits, to kill an Atlas.

Without Artemis this would result on average in 31 missiles hitting. I don't know how the most up to date rules handle the 5-point clusters, but let's assume they lump the launchers from a single firing Mechs together (an approach which I always felt was most sensible), so you'd have 6 clusters with 5 points and one with 1. If you take the other approach, you'd have some 7-8 clusters of 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 points,

Each cluster has a 1/36 chance of scoring a TAC, which has a chance of less than 1/15 of disabling the Mech by double Gyro or triple engine hit. That would be about a 1.2% chance of disabling, and I'm highballing it.
The damage would not be enough to penetrate a side torso with ammo in it, but assuming just a little above average damage, all clusters would be required to hit the same one, the chance of which is negigible (< 0.01%)
Finally, you could ostensibly take the AS7's head off, which would require at least 2 clusters hitting it, and scoring a crit on the cockpit. Highballing again, the chance is maybe 1.8%, so you'd have a less than 3% chance of destroying an AS7 with that salvo.

(Sorry I could not provide exact calculations - no time.)

Don't believe me? Fire up MegaMek and try it a few times. I can assure you the AS7 will not be be killed in 50%, or even 5% of the cases.

Freak results could always happen in BT (and cannot in MWO), but the chance of disabling a Mech with a single LRM attack are near zero.

Edited by Koshirou, 15 March 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Yokaiko]

I said SHORT of assaults...that would mean heavy and down killer.

[Koshirou]

Ahem...

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

and you had about a 50% chance of killing a hundred tonner under that sort of pounding.

And I can only say again: No, you had not.

Against heavies, it doesn't look much different. (Unless we're talking the paper-thin-armored JagerMech and similar.) Please take up my suggestion, fire up MegaMek and try it. Say, two Crusaders firing their LRMs at one Thunderbolt. The TDR is not going to crumble under one salvo on a regular basis.

[Yokaiko]

Koshirou, on 15 March 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ahem...



And I can only say again: No, you had not.

Against heavies, it doesn't look much different. (Unless we're talking the paper-thin-armored JagerMech and similar.) Please take up my suggestion, fire up MegaMek and try it. Say, two Crusaders firing their LRMs at one Thunderbolt. The TDR is not going to crumble under one salvo on a regular basis.

I don't give a **** about meckteck, I'm talking TT and I used to use heavy LRM builds to do just that.

[FupDup]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I don't give a **** about meckteck, I'm talking TT and I used to use heavy LRM builds to do just that.

He said MegaMek (an online version of TT), not MekTek (a development studio that carried MW4 for a decade).

Big difference.

Edited by FupDup, 15 March 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[Koshirou]

Yokaiko, on 15 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I don't give a **** about meckteck,

MegaMek is an exact, 1:1 implementation of the TT rules in a java-based application. It's certainly the fastest and easiest way if you want to try out stuff under the TT rules. But if you like, you can also roll dice until your wrists sprain to test your theories.

Edited by Koshirou, 15 March 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[ciller]

Sure, it would be nice if LRMs and ECM weren't so "easy". Some pilots need easy because they just plain suck, there is nothing overly wrong with this since they are still easily beatable by me and hopefully other skilled pilots.

All I can really say though is we should most definitely NOT use MW4 as a good example of how to make a Mechwarrior game. MW4 botched it in comparison to MW1 and 2 and the balance in game was atrocious.

[Vermaxx]

Missiles need less splash, not a giant argument.

If the DEVS are doing math and the average is coming out well above their quoted 'per missile' figures from the damage values, then something is wrong.

Frankly, there shouldn't BE any splash damage. Weapons should hit the component they hit and do damage. Missiles/LB would be the exception, but every projectile should only damage one component.

If they take out the splash entirely, and then realize they need to up projectile damage, that's a different matter. However, weapons should not do splash damage unless you are using PROJECTILE SPREAD and splash damage interchangably.

Edited by Vermaxx, 15 March 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[Teralitha]

ciller, on 15 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Sure, it would be nice if LRMs and ECM weren't so "easy". Some pilots need easy because they just plain suck, there is nothing overly wrong with this since they are still easily beatable by me and hopefully other skilled pilots.

All I can really say though is we should most definitely NOT use MW4 as a good example of how to make a Mechwarrior game. MW4 botched it in comparison to MW1 and 2 and the balance in game was atrocious.

Mektek modded version of MW4 was indeed garbage. When I speak of MW4 I speak of the original releases by MS. They were far more balanced and much more fun than this piece of crap game has ever been. If your talking about mektek, then I fully agree with you. It IS garbage. But if your talking about the original releases... then you are an *****.

Edited by Teralitha, 15 March 2013 - 10:37 AM.