32 replies to this topic

[Xenok]

This whole thread needs to be ignored by the development team.

I just had a game where I got nailed by LRMs from 3 boats, all running 3 LRM 20 systems or more. Instant death. Is this a problem with the game? No. Its a problem with the fact that I ran out of ECM range across an open area and found out the enemy had 3 heavy LRM boats. Other team members used this knowledge and went around and killed the LRM boats and we won.

It was bad for me, but good for the team. They are easily countered, if you play right to do it. This game is going in the right direction. I think LRM damage is a bit heavy, something closer to TTs 1 point per missile rather than 1.8 points per missle would be good. I also think that Artimis hits center torso a bit to much and should help more missiles hit somewhere on the mech rather than cause the missiles to land center torso and head more often.... there are several little changes I would make if it were me making the calls, others would make different changes. Those changes are largely a matter of preference and can be delt with in game by being mindful of what your fighting or the unknown elemenets until you know what your fighting.

Rock Paper Sizzor will keep this fun, cookie cutter balance will make it boaring. We need the first and need to stay as far away from the second as we can and keep the game fun.

[Brilig]

I think arms are the only thing that should converge 100%. There should probable be 3 fixed crosshairs, 1 for each torso section.

[Karl Streiger]

Brilig, on 18 March 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

There should probable be 3 fixed crosshairs, 1 for each torso section.

Oh that sound like a brilliant idea.
Why not - sounds simple.

[Belorion]

None of those things are a problem...

Boating is cannon and viable, the mechlab is just fine, and convergence would be super annoying if they made it even harder to git. The weapons are supposed to go where the cross hairs go.

[LittleGrim]

Adding more convergence time would make gameplay for me pretty much impossible. I have a steady 270-300 ping, the only things I would be able to get convergence on are things heading right at me. As it stands I have to aim at LEAST an inch in front of something if its not heading right to me(apart from lasers).

Making convergence take longer would make ballistics and PPC's unusable for me and anyone else not in the America's.

Edited by LittleGrim, 18 March 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[Sayyid]

Boating is a problem. I dont mean the mechs with 2 or 3 of one type of weapon, but the ones that take 4 SRM6s or a half dozen Streaks or LRM5s. They are one trick ponies and are pretty much useless in any situation but what they were built for, the problem is these are usually the ones that complain the loudest on the forums.

Then you have the Mechlab vote.

No Mechlab is not restrictive enough, this replacing a MG with a AC20, or even a Guass Rifle is just stupid. First of all these are not Omni-Mechs, and I dont care what anyone says about how you can put 22" on your Geo Metro and act like a bawlah. I tell them they dont know jack about how a mech works in the world of Battletech or how military equipment works. I challenge any of the basement dwellers out there who say otherwise to show me that you can take a M1A2 Abrams, remove the M256 120mm and replace it with a 16" gun from a Battleship, or put a 40mm Bofors from a Marder in its place.

[Ulric Kell]

Boating existed in the BT universe but not nearly as widespread as we see it in MWO. This is because the economy of BT didn't lend itself well to those who boated. Personally I think there should be negatives to stacking the same weapons.

[Prezimonto]

Thank you for starting a generalized discussion.

[Shibas]

Sayyid, on 18 March 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

Boating is a problem. I dont mean the mechs with 2 or 3 of one type of weapon, but the ones that take 4 SRM6s or a half dozen Streaks or LRM5s. They are one trick ponies and are pretty much useless in any situation but what they were built for, the problem is these are usually the ones that complain the loudest on the forums.

Then you have the Mechlab vote.

No Mechlab is not restrictive enough, this replacing a MG with a AC20, or even a Guass Rifle is just stupid. First of all these are not Omni-Mechs, and I dont care what anyone says about how you can put 22" on your Geo Metro and act like a bawlah. I tell them they dont know jack about how a mech works in the world of Battletech or how military equipment works. I challenge any of the basement dwellers out there who say otherwise to show me that you can take a M1A2 Abrams, remove the M256 120mm and replace it with a 16" gun from a Battleship, or put a 40mm Bofors from a Marder in its place.

Yeah, I don't think you get how variants work. They replaced smaller stuff/larger stuff all the time with different sized components. Look at the Hunchback, the main weapon (AC/20) has been swapped out for everything from an AC/5 to a Guass Rifle. The Jagermech swaps out the ac/5+ac/2s for 2 Guass Rifles, and the Locust swaps out it's 2 MGs for 2 LRM 5s. That's what a variant is, a stock chassis removing something to add something else. There is no rule saying "Only ac/5s in here." Limiting the hardpoint system any farther and you start to stagnate design and customization. Then you no longer see a mech and wonder what it's armament is, it will be XYZ because it can only fit XYZ in it.

[Karl Streiger]

Shibas, on 18 March 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Yeah, I don't think you get how variants work. They replaced smaller stuff/larger stuff all the time with different sized components. Look at the Hunchback, the main weapon (AC/20) has been swapped out for everything from an AC/5 to a Guass Rifle. The Jagermech swaps out the ac/5+ac/2s for 2 Guass Rifles, and the Locust swaps out it's 2 MGs for 2 LRM 5s. That's what a variant is, a stock chassis removing something to add something else. There is no rule saying "Only ac/5s in here."

omp. The Hunchbacks replacemence were forced by grief needs or because it was a prototype.

and even with those serious modifications you hardly see any change in structure or armortype. you see that only when creation a complete new line of that mech.

i think it would be more interesting when mechlab got some changes. to call it limitation is possible something that sound negative.

[Karl Streiger]

ok new thoughts. maybe there will be language problems to deliver my ideas.
so the K2 is listed as energy boat. what designs will be removed dual AC5 UAC5 Gauss AC20 AC10 and LBX builds. what stay K2 with dual Large Laser or PPCs or you boat small energy weapons.
Again 8 medium laser could be mount on a faster mech as dual PPCs. Resulting in more dmg at shorter ranges. again we would see the rise of boats. So you need convergence...
so who is the better rifleman... those that has to aim for the 10 to hit the 10, or those that has to aim for the 8 at 10 oclock. Answer is simple nobody is better both have to know there gun.

And you don't want to tell me that convergence that made the firepower of the WC3 thunderbolt better as the excalibur the TIE fighter better as the interceptor shouldn't be an issue here?
Heck i believe even in those old DOS Games called privateer i choosed ships because of their convergence. When i fire 4 shots and all 4 shots hit the target or are complete miss...could happen on Mechs like Catapult...or i shoot 4 shots and 2 shots hit and 2 shots go wide allready happen on the Atlas.

However the Atlas is a really good exapmple...how convergence should work. Look you have that large ballistic at its hip... at first i realized that i have to aim more carefully...because some of my shots hit the rear of friendly units - second i realized that the position of the gun make it subherb in killing Cicade Zergs running in your mech. Because ballistic is in the same height as the cockpit...so when a Cic closes i don't even aim... i just bring the ballistic in line...and fire....at ranges below 40m is almost a head shot.

That is the advantage of convergence - if you got behind how your Mech/ how your Gun work.

so convergence to a special point only means when you want to hit the head(10) of a target at 450m with you MLAS you aim for it. in same mech at 250m you have to aim for the 9 at 11clock and at 50m just target the 7 at 10 o'clock or something like that.

So my suggestion regarding convegence...just take the 75% of the maximum range...at this point all weapons of the Mech will hit a pin point.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 18 March 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[Xenok]

Brilig, on 18 March 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I think arms are the only thing that should converge 100%. There should probable be 3 fixed crosshairs, 1 for each torso section.

Another bad idea. The game has to be playable to the masses to succeed. The dual crosshair system is the single most confusing thing to new players right now. Based on a couple of people I introduced to the game. They are simplifying that by default behavior, increasing the complexity further will greately shorten the audiance willing learn to play the game. Would be bad for PGI as it would short them revenue from less avid players.

[Taemien]

Xenok, on 18 March 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Another bad idea. The game has to be playable to the masses to succeed. The dual crosshair system is the single most confusing thing to new players right now. Based on a couple of people I introduced to the game. They are simplifying that by default behavior, increasing the complexity further will greately shorten the audiance willing learn to play the game. Would be bad for PGI as it would short them revenue from less avid players.

There is a limit to that. Dumb the game down too much and yes, you get millions of players. But you lose them as they quickly get bored of the simple game.

Works in a game like Super Mario Bros where you can start with simple levels and gradually increase them. But that is a solo game against the game itself. Not very good for a competitive game where its always player vs player.

The opposite is also true, the game has to be able to be breachable by new players. Right now I believe it is. I've seen a 13 year old girl with no MechWarrior experience turn into a competent and competitive (on a consistent basis, in the top 4 of the match by my standard) light mech pilot in about 3 days. Another friend of mine who had a little MW3 and MW4 experience only took until the end of his cadet bonus to become just as good.

We have to remember not to compare this game to PVE oriented games. This game is competitive by nature. A new player is simply going to be fodder until they get better. Its pretty much like that in most FPS games and other competitive oriented games as well.

The average gamer knows this. They go into a game knowing they suck and will eventually get good. So I don't see the problem. The casual gamer (aka your girlfriend, non-gaming roommate, or computer illiterate relatives) that can do alright in games like WoW should not be a target audience for a game such as this.