32 replies to this topic

[Maurdakar]

Hello fellow Mechwarriors my name is Maurdakar, and the purpose of this post is to start a productive discussion of game mechanics.

Today I would like to propose a change to cap-times in the Assault game mode, and hopefully justify the reasons for the proposal.

Your average match for Assault begins with both teams crossing the field, locating one another, and then engaging in a method optimal for their mech build. However, it is possible for both teams to walk in a circle, entirely around one another and find the enemy base undefended, thusly capture it and end the match without a shot being fired.

I propose that bases be ‘locked’ for the first five minutes* thus being impossible to capture initially.

Hopefully this change will encourage the Assault game mode to focus more acutely on battlemech engagements and further differentiate it from the conquest mode, where capturing points is the key to success.

Capturing points early in Assault mode does have some merit. A single light mech can spook an enemy team into splitting up and over-responding to a perceived threat. More often rushing the primary base with multiple high-speed mechs is a cheesy way to ensure victory, though does not result in many space-bucks being earned.

While both of these tactics are acceptable, the proposed change would encourage light mechs to play as scouts, and fast attack mechs to hunt in groups, as well as focus the Assault game mode further on pure combat between mech lances.

Ideally at the end of a match (one sided outcome or not) the survivors can cap the opposing team's base without having to chase down cowardly fast mechs (which may hide and power down) or lights which have no hope of victory, but are drawing the game out. This is why capping should exist in Assault, to avoid a frustrating end game of cat-and-mouse, that shouldn’t exist in a game-mode named ‘Assault’.


Our goals on this thread:
To receive a response from the Dev’s, knowing they have simply read our thoughts.
*Negotiable, let’s talk about this if you have a problem with it.
-It is not helpful to dismiss ideas for being “non-canon”
-It is not helpful to respond to trolls
-Upvoting ideas you agree with is helpful

[Pinselborste]

yeah would be great if capping wouldnt be allowed for some minutes, but it should be based on map size, small maps 5 minutes, and alpine peaks 10 minutes, together with increasing the matchtime by 10 minutes. right now its mostly lights just rushing at alpine and the team that has more wins.

[Cattra Kell]

I like this idea a lot - for the first 5 minutes it will be positioning and most likely one skirmish guaranteeing hopefully no more quick caps which leads to no one having fun. After that 5 minutes either you will have a victor or that is when the lights would break off and try to go for the cap - at the same time the team that is winning / won the skirmish would most likely still have some lights which would chase down the enemy lights.

Anyways, rambling aside - I think this is actually a very good idea.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 16 March 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[raptorian]

I'd be cool with this, as you say capping the oil rig is fine once you have proved your dominance (and/or force the last scout to engage the winning team for a last shot at glory) but otherwise these tweaks will force teams to engage each other. I'm seeing base rushing less and less now but it's still there, should be dealt with somehow.

In a way this works like TF2's Arena mode, forcing the last guy to come out and engage the side capping the point after a few minutes of it being locked.

[Kaelus]

Back in closed beta my posted idea was half the mechs dead or half the match time, whichever came soonest, so I am in favor of this choice.

[Lyteros]

Agreed, we don't ned slight variations of basecapping modes under different names.

[DeadlyNerd]

I gotta say, either most of the MWO forums is hypocritical or they only read and post on general discussion cause the poll results are too positive for this suggestion.
I support this but I expected sticks and stones from elitist "durr defend base if you don't want me to ninja cap" kids.

[Neolisk]

Early capping adds variety to how matches play out, because it may split the defending team into two parts, so it's easier to deal with them. The defending team should make sure they leave someone at defence, or risk being captured at start of the match.

If you see it as a problem, I suggest a new game type - called Team Deathmatch, which is exactly what you want. No bases, just hunt and kill.

Edited by Neolisk, 15 March 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[Maurdakar]

DeadlyNerd, on 15 March 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I gotta say, either most of the MWO forums is hypocritical or they only read and post on general discussion cause the poll results are too positive for this suggestion.
I support this but I expected sticks and stones from elitist "durr defend base if you don't want me to ninja cap" kids.

I believe by approaching people in a genuinely respectful, polite manner then the forums are actually a productive place.
Inc trolls.

Neolisk, on 15 March 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Early capping adds variety to how matches play out, because it may split the defending team into two parts, so it's easier to deal with them. The defending team should make sure they leave someone at defence, or risk being captured at start of the match.

If you see it as a problem, I suggest a new game type - called Team Deathmatch, which is exactly what you want. No bases, just hunt and kill.

A perfectly valid point. I have provided you with the appropriate voting option.

[Kenyon Burguess]

pretty much I agree with the ones against this. so I will say it with sarcasm: the devs could spend the time programming that, or you could defend your base instead of marching blindly to the same point on the map every match and demanding the other players meet you there to fight.

Edited by Geist Null, 15 March 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Roland]

Someone recently made an even better suggestion, which was to tie the speed of the cap to the ratio of surviving mechs.

That is, if you haven't killed ANY of the enemy mechs, the capping would proceed very slowly.

But, the more mechs you killed, the faster the cap would take place.. so, if you've killed all but one of the enemy, the cap would proceed much more quickly.

[Maurdakar]

Roland, on 15 March 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Someone recently made an even better suggestion, which was to tie the speed of the cap to the ratio of surviving mechs.

That is, if you haven't killed ANY of the enemy mechs, the capping would proceed very slowly.

But, the more mechs you killed, the faster the cap would take place.. so, if you've killed all but one of the enemy, the cap would proceed much more quickly.

I don't feel that's better per say but it's certainly in the same vein and thought up with the same intent, so I could support it in this ideas absence.

Geist Null, on 15 March 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

pretty much I agree with the ones against this. so I will say it with sarcasm: the devs could spend the time programming that, or you could defend your base instead of marching blindly to the same point on the map every match and demanding the other players meet you there to fight.

Sarcasm noted. Also I feel base defense is best suited for other modes. Hopefully one's with actual bases instead of empty squares and which are not named 'assault'.

Edited by Maurdakar, 15 March 2013 - 03:08 PM.

[Monky]

Flanking the cap point is a critical way to break a line of mechs. Without it, assault will literally be assault lances butting heads.

The bonus to cap speed based on # of mechs in circle is a bigger problem - rush a 4 man of ravens onto the point unseen and cap within 15 seconds, yeah, not a good idea to allow this.

If it was 1 mech cap speed no matter what, start of round rushing would be limited to tactical distractions, as any dedicated rush would have time to be met with resistance.

[Tabrias07]

PGI, if you're reading this, PLEASE, PLEASE DO THIS OR SOMETHING SIMILAR.

[Khobai]

The problem with thebase assault gamemode is that it makes absolutely NO sense at all.

1) what are the bases?
2) why are we trying to capture them? why do we lose if they get captured?
3) how is capturing bases even possible in mechs?
4) why did we build our base so close to the enemy base?

How are none of those questions answered? This game seriously needs to work on its immersion factor...

[Gladewolf]

Maurdakar, on 15 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Your average match for Assault begins with both teams crossing the field, locating one another, and then engaging in a method optimal for their mech build. However, it is possible for both teams to walk in a circle, entirely around one another and find the enemy base undefended, thusly capture it and end the match without a shot being fired.


While both of these tactics are acceptable, the proposed change would encourage light mechs to play as scouts, and fast attack mechs to hunt in groups, as well as focus the Assault game mode further on pure combat between mech lances.

I have cut the OPs statement down to highlight what is actually happening, because it is important to consider the facts of the matter. On the first item.....generally a mob of mechs runs off in some preprogrammed direction, regardless of what their opponents are doing...even if they are TOLD what their opponents are doing. On many maps, stepping a mere 60 yards and waiting 10 seconds is all it takes to see the basics of what your opponents are doing. Most groups fail to do this at all.

On the second point, on maps in which your opponents position can not be quickly determined....you would think scouting would be a must.....but instead you get ENTIRE teams running down the 3 line in Caustic (for instance)....which by the way, is a far longer route to the enemy base than straight over the volcano....so i have a hard time understanding how removing the threat of capping will promote scouting....

Edited by Gladewolf, 15 March 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Kell Commander]

Yes it sucks when a team base rushes, but I like using it as a tactic to either split their team in 2 or turn their back to the bigger mechs with more guns. Implementing this would make that strategy hard as hell to pull off.

Granted, I have been advocating a change to the assault mode itself since capture mode was released.

[focuspark]

No because I prefer allowing options. I don't like the government telling me how big a soda can be and I don't want the devs locking out capping "just because"

[Aurrous]

I'm going to say no, I think half of these complaints would go away if they just added TDM, which is mech assault without bases to cap.. Last man standing who didn't power down and cowered in the corner wins.. Power down for longer than 1 min and you blow up.. Simple..

Then leave Mech Assault mode as is..

[Maurdakar]

Assault, TDM, the difference is merely nomenclature at this point.