62 replies to this topic

[Whompity]

NRP, on 15 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Brawling is simply the most satisfying type of combat in this game imo. I've thrown a PPC or two on my brawlers to deal with the larger maps, but they're still pretty much straight up brawlers.

Brawling is where the glory is.

[MischiefSC]

LRMs happened. Now 30 to 50% of any team is LRM builds, maybe a sniper or two. LRMs are just so much easier to win with. It's not as hard to do tons of damage (which nets you money win or lose) and steal some kills with.

Brawler is harder. It takes more skill to do well. It also tends to get you screwed by your team. When LRM boating it's easier to stick with your team and stay in the back so you can catch up easier when your team runs away.

Brawling is harder to do well. We'll see what the ECM/removal of splash damage does.

[Strykewolf]

I run mine as 'generalist' builds...I guess. A mix of long, and short range. And usually will make sure the long is good for short, too...when possible.

[Idolo]

I mostly brawl and quite succesfully, i have however changed the loudout of my brawlers with more focus on concentrated alpha's instead of a steady damage output. This way i can make the most use of cover and avoid those pesky lrm's and poptarts.

[Byk]

The key to brawling now is patience. A lot of people are running PPC's because they are a little too heat efficient now if you ask me. That and LRM's. Stick to cover, guard your allies, and if you see an opportunity to go after an enemy without putting yourself in the open or too much danger go for it. Gone are the days of charging around the battlefield at enemy mechs. You'll be ripped apart from range before you get close. And be careful not to get yourself caught in a situation where you're suddenly outnumbered and your teammates are not nearby.

[bloodnor]

as a nearly light mech exclusive kinda guy while doing 8 man drops 2 days ago there were no light spots left we were doing 2 of each mech class so i bought a dragon 1C and i love it for brawling.

that awesome moment you see an atlas backing off as you steam towards him firing everything you go and puff he falls over backwards

Edited by bloodnor, 15 March 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Lee Ving]

Koujo, on 15 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I've noticed when playing my brawling mediums that quite often I'm just about the only brawler on the team. Sniping with gauss rifles and PPCs seems to be much more popular. As a lone brawler it makes it very difficult to decide when to close with the enemy. Do it too soon and you will incur the wrath of the entire enemy team and be taken out in seconds. The only other option is to stand behind cover and hope something comes to you before the match ends.

I guess it's just the plight of the lone wolf pugger. Either adapt your build to be more flexible and able to engage at multiple ranges or stand there all match hiding behind your LRM spewing missile boat ECM atlas. Anyone else experienced this?

Or pick someone that is likely to see close engagement distance and stick nearby so as to contribute to teamwork?

[Zeh]

KingCobra, on 15 March 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Well my point was IF 9-10 years ago they made a true MechWarrior game you could play in a match 5-15 minutes and yes my mechs were damaged but still playable dodge incoming shots and still be alive what does it say about MWO? that mwo is fun for a few matches but after that its a grinding repetitive shallow game that is unrewarding in and way.

Wrong. Thanks for your input.

[M4rtyr]

Only one problem with brawling mechs like my 4SP now... the new map.

Yes i'm glad to have a larger and more open map but its too open. Unless you have ECM if the enemy has even 1 LRM boat you are going to be dead long before you get near them because the hills are all so far apart.

They need to learn to make maps that have a mix of open and conjested areas. Then you can try your best to take advantage of the terrain that best fits your mech and if you are the 'smarter' pilot you are one step closer to winning the match. This all closed in or all wide open crap on the maps just shows the devs have a very limited view.

[zhajin]

alpine changed a lot of builds. add to that the heat adjustments to ppcs and tweaks to lrms, and you get a longer range game than we had before. brawling now is more of a wait until the long range disipline starts to break down. or go with a faster build and attack the flanks. the map also makes a difference but these days, even in river city i see more long range fights, where teams will hold back in upper city base or push to the citadel from the lower base.

that being said some epic brawls still break out. had a match the other day on alpine that turned into a king of the mountain brawl, up on one of the peaks.

[Royalewithcheese]

M4rtyr, on 15 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Only one problem with brawling mechs like my 4SP now... the new map.

Yes i'm glad to have a larger and more open map but its too open. Unless you have ECM if the enemy has even 1 LRM boat you are going to be dead long before you get near them because the hills are all so far apart.

They need to learn to make maps that have a mix of open and conjested areas. Then you can try your best to take advantage of the terrain that best fits your mech and if you are the 'smarter' pilot you are one step closer to winning the match. This all closed in or all wide open crap on the maps just shows the devs have a very limited view.

IMO Alpine is a great brawler map. You're not going to be doing much of anything at the start of the match (basically providing ECM/AMS cover or taking potshots with your longer-range weapons) but sticking with your team and using hills for cover will let you get into your optimal range. Those hills are actually pretty awesome for surprise attacks because you can climb up or drop down on someone, and they make for interesting dogfights because you can use them to keep your opponents from using their torso guns.

[Novakaine]

Join up don't be a Pug!

[Mr G]

I have to agree with Royale here. the new map doesn't punish brawlers. It just punishes slow "I'm the Juggernaut" wanna bes who like to take long hikes and stare up at the sky while contemplating the meaning of existance or some other stupid random ****. Instead of piloting a ******** huge freaking walking weapon of mass destruction and blowing stuff up like they are supposed to.

[M4rtyr]

Would like to know what brawlers you guys are using... a 4SP is useless on Alpine assault, caping points on conquest is better as its more spread out and the fast meds lights go out to cap.

But when the teams stick together if the enemy pays any attention to their suroundings you can't get close to them at all. Maybe its my teams have been terrible (which some have been) or your enemys have been terrible. But I have yet to see a single brawl on alpine only long range duels and mopping up after a crushing.

I've gotten in close myself but when I have I've been solo and destroyed in seconds because I was the only one trying to get close. The map is terrible and one dimentional imo. But as I said, thats the only brawler challenged map, every other map still turns into a massive brawl in most cases. Occasionally there is the long range stand off for a bit but not most times in my experience.

[Idolo]

Mostly i use my atlas-D or boomkitty, sometimes my muromets although it's not really a brawler more of a second line support mech.

[Royalewithcheese]

M4rtyr, on 15 March 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Would like to know what brawlers you guys are using... a 4SP is useless on Alpine assault, caping points on conquest is better as its more spread out and the fast meds lights go out to cap.

But when the teams stick together if the enemy pays any attention to their suroundings you can't get close to them at all. Maybe its my teams have been terrible (which some have been) or your enemys have been terrible. But I have yet to see a single brawl on alpine only long range duels and mopping up after a crushing.

I've gotten in close myself but when I have I've been solo and destroyed in seconds because I was the only one trying to get close. The map is terrible and one dimentional imo. But as I said, thats the only brawler challenged map, every other map still turns into a massive brawl in most cases. Occasionally there is the long range stand off for a bit but not most times in my experience.

DDC, myself. I've got a config with a STD330 and 2xUAC5, which is actually acceptable at long-range combat vs. ppl at the same elevation and a config with a STD350 with no long-ranged firepower. I generally don't see much action until the second half of the match, and by then am usually in range to use my big guns. At that point I usually start going after stragglers or snipers or join a charge if we have brought enough brawlers for one. IMO Alpine has a huge positional angle because of the hills - you can use them to show up from unexpected angles.

[M4rtyr]

Royalewithcheese, on 15 March 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

DDC, myself. I've got a config with a STD330 and 2xUAC5, which is actually acceptable at long-range combat vs. ppl at the same elevation and a config with a STD350 with no long-ranged firepower. I generally don't see much action until the second half of the match, and by then am usually in range to use my big guns. At that point I usually start going after stragglers or snipers or join a charge if we have brought enough brawlers for one. IMO Alpine has a huge positional angle because of the hills - you can use them to show up from unexpected angles.

What did I say about ECM? yeah a DDC is going to be ok because you can't get locked by the LRM boats. You really need to look at the whole picture.

What.. UAC5's? thats not a brawler thats actually a perfect build for Alpine. Try taking a 4SP out on Alpine and tell us how good the map is for them.

[Regina Redshift]

I've dialed back my brawlers a bit, but that's more of an admission that 1) I'm not that good of a brawler and 2) I need to change ISPs.

[Taemien]

There's two type of brawling: The Grand Melee, or a Focused Effort.

The Grand Melee is a normal PUG brawl. It inevitably happens in most games. As someone stated above its when someone breaks lines and everyone follows. The results are entirely unpredictable and throws the game to chance. The game could end in 8-0 or 8-7, usually either one of those extremes. The reason for it is normally when one mech goes down, there's less focus fire for that team and they start dropping like flies, ending the match in 8-0 or 8-2 at the best. Funny thing is, they blame this on premades or mech configs. Well half the time they have a premade on their own team that went with or caused the zerg.

It really doesn't matter what configs there are in a grand melee. It just comes down to focus fire and its random because there's little to no coordination in the heat of the fight.

A focused effort to brawl is when you have a team, normally a premade, that coordinates short range mechs into a flanking ambushing group. They come from a direction that the enemy doesn't expect and trounces their LRM mechs right off the bat and then moves up to destroy the rest of the enemy. This is where all the hate for ECM, LRMs, SRMs, Streaks, ect comes from. Since this is the area those systems are the most effective in. Well they are simply getting outplayed in configuration, coordination, and positioning. Even without those systems they would have trounced the unsuspecting enemy.

I personally stay out of the grand melee where I can, unless i'm in a mech nimble enough to move in and out of it at will. Its way too unpredictable. Some players love it, but I think most of that is they have the best chances of winning there, since strategy isn't something they've learned yet. I urge everyone to steer clear of this. It doesn't teach you the needed tenents of MechWarrior.

You don't really learn the maximum potential of your weapons as you're usually not anywhere near the maximum ranges.
You don't learn positioning because everyone is all around you.
You don't learn heat management since you're just blazing till you or your target is dead*
You don't learn maneuvering because there is little reason to do so.

*A mistake many make is making a config that can keep firing longer in a grand melee. Meaning they have less weapons than they could normally.

The grand melee is where the splatcat came from. Its burst is high enough that yes, it can get a few kills in those engagements. But thats the only place it shines. If it gets surrounded by high speed skirmishers, its dead in the water. If it gets caught on a melee unfriendly map, it gets sniped.

More players avoiding the melee makes the A1 more and more usless and more high risk to field. If you don't like the A1, then don't engage in the melee. The melee is also causing LRM mechs to surface. When you're engaged in the melee, you're just a free target to them. Don't engage and they can't really hit you.

The hardest part is getting the masses to learn this. Without a unit/clan to teach them discipline and teamwork, they don't know any better. Heck even if they read this, they just shrug it off and think I'm on a high horse. But hopefully there are some that do take heed. For the others, at least they can't say no one tried to help them.

[Major Scumbag]

No need for brawler with changes to Artemis and LRM boating. Why brawl when you can stay at max range and shoot missles with LOS.