17 replies to this topic

[Commander Kobold]

I'm not complaining about streaks here (so if you where hopping for one of those threads I'm sorry)
but I read a post from the DEVs saying that AMS is supposed to shoot down streaks, why doesn't it? Anyone know/have some theories as to why?

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

AMS has a range of 200m. Streaks travel at 200m/s. AMS does 2 dps (missiles have 1 health) AMS checks for missiles once every .5 seconds.

So unless they fire from 200+ away AMS probably won't have enough time to shoot more than one (or less) down.

[Cpt Beefheart]

It's beca... *boom*

/killed by streak

[Coolant]

See this thread, find the info on AMS:

http://mwomercs.com/...-dziegielewski/

Then realize that streaks have 2x the speed of LRM's and SRM's 3x so very little chance the AMS will have time to shoot down many missiles at all. I just wouldn't count on AMS for defense against short range missiles

[Commander Kobold]

They should probably do something about that they sort of said it did..
(for streaks anyways), would solve the light mechs without ECM are useless problem a bit.

Edited by Omni 13, 17 March 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

Astroniomix, on 17 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

AMS has a range of 200m. Streaks travel at 200m/s. AMS does 2 dps (missiles have 1 health) AMS checks for missiles once every .5 seconds.

So unless they fire from 200+ away AMS probably won't have enough time to shoot more than one (or less) down.

thanks for the explanation btw.

[SpiralRazor]

Coolant, on 17 March 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

See this thread, find the info on AMS:

http://mwomercs.com/...-dziegielewski/

Then realize that streaks have 2x the speed of LRM's and SRM's 3x so very little chance the AMS will have time to shoot down many missiles at all. I just wouldn't count on AMS for defense against short range missiles

Ignorance should be a ban worthy offense


Streaks travel at 200ms, SRMS 300ms, and LRMS at 100ms.



Btw, I do actually believe the current implementation of AMS is flawed.

It should check for missiles much faster, it should fire much faster and its range should be extended to 270.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 17 March 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

SpiralRazor, on 17 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Ignorance should be a ban worthy offense


Streaks travel at 200ms, SRMS 300ms, and LRMS at 100ms.

no it shouldn't and if the devs say that AMS counters streaks don't you think it should ,you know, counter them?

[SpiralRazor]

"It should check for missiles much faster, it should fire much faster and its range should be extended to 270"


Did you miss that part?

However, if missiles are fired from under 100 Meters, AMS should have very minimal impact. Not enough time to engage , much like what happens if you fire under the engagement range of the Phalanx CIWS.

[Team Leader]

I have fired streaks at about 240 m and they both got shot down by the targets AMS. It works, it's just that if you're really close it doesn't have time to react.

[Coolant]

SpiralRazor, on 17 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Ignorance should be a ban worthy offense


Streaks travel at 200ms, SRMS 300ms, and LRMS at 100ms.



Btw, I do actually believe the current implementation of AMS is flawed.

It should check for missiles much faster, it should fire much faster and its range should be extended to 270.

2x 100ms = 200, 3x 100ms = 300...if that was directed at me...

[SpiralRazor]

Coolant, on 17 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

2x 100ms = 200, 3x 100ms = 300...if that was directed at me...

It was, but your wording wasnt very clear. Your posting implies that SSRMS move 3 times as fast as SRMS. SSRM movement rate AND turn rate was actually nerfed quite awhile back, to what it is now.

LRMS are very slow...yes.

[Yokaiko]

Omni 13, on 17 March 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm not complaining about streaks here (so if you where hopping for one of those threads I'm sorry)
but I read a post from the DEVs saying that AMS is supposed to shoot down streaks, why doesn't it? Anyone know/have some theories as to why?

It does the ssrms just have to be launched from 200m out.

.....which always happens.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Omni 13, on 17 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

no it shouldn't and if the devs say that AMS counters streaks don't you think it should ,you know, counter them?

They NEVER said it "countered" streaks. Only that it will ATTEMPT to shoot them down. Please do not put words in the dev's mouths as it causes forum riots.

[Commander Kobold]

Astroniomix, on 17 March 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

They NEVER said it "countered" streaks. Only that it will ATTEMPT to shoot them down. Please do not put words in the dev's mouths as it causes forum riots.

while I doubt that this would cause anythign near a forum riot (I'd have to suggest an ECM buff or P2W itme for that) the devs posted clearly in the command chair then AMS should affect streaks when it doesn't seem to be doing so (mostly do to the streaks moving too fast and the ams being too slow) the DEVs should tweak something to make the AMS able to shoot down the streaks more effectively, which in turn will partially solve the ECM light mech with streaks issue because then everyone else can mount a 1.5t peice of gear that will block the ECM Raven/Commando streaks.

Edited by Omni 13, 18 March 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

SpiralRazor, on 17 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

"It should check for missiles much faster, it should fire much faster and its range should be extended to 270"


Did you miss that part?

However, if missiles are fired from under 100 Meters, AMS should have very minimal impact. Not enough time to engage , much like what happens if you fire under the engagement range of the Phalanx CIWS.

In a light vs light fight missiles are almost always fired from less than 100m away, IMO AMS should be more effective at close range because it's currently useless against streaks.

[PurpleNinja]

If AMS fires against a mech, does it do any damage?

Edited by PurpleNinja, 18 March 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Vapor Trail]

Coolant, on 17 March 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

See this thread, find the info on AMS:

http://mwomercs.com/...-dziegielewski/

Then realize that streaks have 2x the speed of LRM's and SRM's 3x so very little chance the AMS will have time to shoot down many missiles at all. I just wouldn't count on AMS for defense against short range missiles

Link is incorrect. Goes to his profile page, not to the info.

http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry1817827
This is the correct link.


Anyway, a single SSRM2 can saturate a single AMS, and might even be able to bypass the AMS of a standing target completely.

If the "checks for missiles every .5 second" info is true (dunno, first I've heard) then the missiles can concieveably be detected at 81M from a launch of 180+ m Which means they're ~.4 seconds from impact, and it's impossible to intercept even one. (2 dps, < 0.5 second flight time ==> not enough damage applied to kill a missile).

Against a target running away at 130 kph, the missile speed is effectively 163.9 m/sec

This means if detection happens exactly at 180m there's 1.09 seconds of flight time. 2 DPS, just enough time to shoot both down. From one SSRM 2.

However, if the .5 second info is true, then the missiles could concieveably be detected at 98m with just under .6 seconds of flight time left. Enough to kill ONE missile.

So best case scenario, you shoot down 2 SSRMs. Worst case, you shoot down none. Average case, you maybe get one.

Multiple CSSRM6. How exactly is AMS supposed to counter this?

Lets say you have a lance of 4 mechs. All of which are sporting AMS.

One mech fires a salvo of twin SSRM6 at one of the four and all 4 AMS engage simultaneously with missiles at 180 from target.

180m from standing target, 200m/sec flight speed. .9 seconds flight time. 7.2 damage applied.

BEST case scenario in this situation is you knock down one full SSRM 6 and one missile from the other.

That's in a four on one scenario.

AMS needs a huge tweak. Frankly, I think AMS should deal MUCH HIGHER damage per second, with a MUCH HIGHER ammo consumption rate. Missile defense is it's NICHE, and it's not very good at it.

It's so not good at it, (and ECM is so much better at it) that it's really just an afterthought on most mechs that carry it.

AMS should be highly effective against missiles, but with a short per-ton ammo effectiveness. Basically if you want to survive being the target of an LRM boat, you should be able to... at the cost of carrying quite a bit of ammo useless for anything else.

One way to achieve this, without raising the AMS DPS too much, but still raising the shots fired per second (or lowering the shots per ton of ammo), is fratricide.

Basically missiles in a flight should explode, and deal damage to other nearby missiles (within a couple meters, basically all missiles that leave the mech simultaneously should be subject). This damage should be random in nature, between .1 and .5 damage per explosion.

This means an LRM 5 (or even an LRM 20, if it's traveling as a single block) engaged by AMS could lose as few as two missiles to AMS, and lose the entire remainder of the flight to fratricide. Alternatively, there could be as many as nine missiles killed by AMS, and the remainder of the flight impact. Random damage, random effects.

This would make LRM fire more survivable, but not a sure thing.

"But my LRM boat would be completely countered by 8 mechs with AMS"

Yep, if balanced right, you and your LRM boat just managed to take between 2.5 and 5 tons off of every mech on the enemy team, just by existing.