30 replies to this topic

[peve]

AMS
Range 200m
DPS 2
Weight 0.5t

MG
Range 90m
DPS 0.4
Weight 0.5t

So, why dont they use AMS devices in MG slots? Spider with 4 AMS would do 8 DPS.

Sometimes this game just feels so illogical.

[Chavette]

If something, the range of MG indeed is a joke. It could be 2000m with its current stats, still no sensible person would use it.

[darkfall13]

When the threads come up about "hey I should be able to use my MGs and shoot down missiles like AMS" I *face palm* and think well 1) MGs suck compared to AMS 2) Why are you even using MGs? and 3) WHY ARE YOU EVEN USING MGs?!

[Team Leader]

darkfall13, on 17 March 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

When the threads come up about "hey I should be able to use my MGs and shoot down missiles like AMS" I *face palm* and think well 1) MGs suck compared to AMS 2) Why are you even using MGs? and 3) WHY ARE YOU EVEN USING MGs?!

Because they're under appreciated and need a buff.

[stjobe]

The MG sucks because the devs - for their own unfathomable reasons - refuse to give it the same treatment every other weapon in the game has gotten.

While every other ballistic weapon got a buff to ammo/ton and damage/ton, the MG got severe nerfs (-90% and -80%, respectively).

While every other ballistic weapon got an increasing damage buff the lower the weight - from 2.5x for the AC/20 to 20x for the AC/2, the MG got the lowest buff of them all, despite it being the lightest ballistic.

It has the slowest projectile speed in the game, at 100 kph. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to outrun a MG bullet.

It has the lowest damage per ton of ammo of any weapon by a factor of 2.

It has the lowest projectile damage of any weapon by a factor of 20.

They took what was basically a very short-range AC/2 and turned it into [redacted]. It needs to be fixed, and not by making it a "crit weapon" - effectively denying all of us a ballistic option below six tons - but by buffing its damage by at least a factor of 3.

[Major Derps]

stjobe, on 17 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

The MG sucks because the devs - for their own unfathomable reasons - refuse to give it the same treatment every other weapon in the game has gotten.

While every other ballistic weapon got a buff to ammo/ton and damage/ton, the MG got severe nerfs (-90% and -80%, respectively).

While every other ballistic weapon got an increasing damage buff the lower the weight - from 2.5x for the AC/20 to 20x for the AC/2, the MG got the lowest buff of them all, despite it being the lightest ballistic.

It has the slowest projectile speed in the game, at 100 kph. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to outrun a MG bullet.

It has the lowest damage per ton of ammo of any weapon by a factor of 2.

It has the lowest projectile damage of any weapon by a factor of 20.

They took what was basically a very short-range AC/2 and turned it into [redacted]. It needs to be fixed, and not by making it a "crit weapon" - effectively denying all of us a ballistic option below six tons - but by buffing its damage by at least a factor of 3.

They did get a buff...a crit damage buff...Just because a mech doesn't go boom when you shoot it, doesn't mean nothing is happening. I doubt they will ever get a damage buff, because with the RPM and zero cooldown, they would be abused by light and meds. They are crit seekers, not damage dealers. Throw a couple on a light, and let rip once the enemies armor is down, then watch their weapons blow. Will you get the kill? Probably not. But by making the mech combat ineffective, you are preventing damage to yourself and team mates.

[stjobe]

Mokey Mot, on 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Will you get the kill? Probably not. But by making the mech combat ineffective, you are preventing damage to yourself and team mates.

Are you talking about the 'mech with the MGs, or the one it's shooting at?

At the moment, mounting MGs is a good way to make your 'mech combat ineffective.

[superteds]

Mokey Mot, on 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

They did get a buff...a crit damage buff...Just because a mech doesn't go boom when you shoot it, doesn't mean nothing is happening. I doubt they will ever get a damage buff, because with the RPM and zero cooldown, they would be abused by light and meds. They are crit seekers, not damage dealers. Throw a couple on a light, and let rip once the enemies armor is down, then watch their weapons blow. Will you get the kill? Probably not. But by making the mech combat ineffective, you are preventing damage to yourself and team mates.

yes that's wonderful and stuff, but you could just actually blow out the section entirely, instead of taking the gamble 'ohhh yay i killed his AMS!'

crit seeking quirks should be just that - a quirk, not the focus of a 1.5t weapon.

[peve]

The real question remains: if the engineers can make AMS, why can't they make a MG with similar stats?

There is no logic whatsoever. Yes, this is a game about giant robots. But still.

[darkfall13]

Team Leader, on 17 March 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Because they're under appreciated and need a buff.

That's a terrible reason to use it, my statement still stands as saying the same exact thing.

[Davers]

Team Leader, on 17 March 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Because they're under appreciated and need a buff.

Funny, thats the same reason people give for running what they consider 'cheese builds'. Only difference is they are winning in them. You are just making the other team feel bad for you and making your teammates make 'Elo sucks' forum posts.

[PaintedWolf]

The Battletech Universe uses the Armor Barrier System. AMS does not do any actual damage, or if so its "BAR" (Armor Barrier Piercing Ability) is too low to actually damage a Mech. I am not sure what BAR Missiles have but it is less then a Mech's.

[PaintedWolf]

Generally the Battletech game is considered an abstract of actual combat, and things like BAR are assumed and so not listed. The fact that AMS does enough damage to damage something with a lower BAR rating like a Missile and not a Battlemech is taken for granted.

[Major Derps]

superteds, on 17 March 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

yes that's wonderful and stuff, but you could just actually blow out the section entirely, instead of taking the gamble 'ohhh yay i killed his AMS!'

crit seeking quirks should be just that - a quirk, not the focus of a 1.5t weapon.

A good premise, but they alway were useless, and PGI, IMO, has made them useful again with the crit buff. And yes, you could just blow out the section, but the bonus of negating damage by almost instantly destroying a weapon far outways the alternative. Finally, I wouldn't be putting them on a mech that has the capability of blow a component of quickly, they are better suited for lights.

[Trauglodyte]

stjobe, on 17 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

The MG sucks because the devs - for their own unfathomable reasons - refuse to give it the same treatment every other weapon in the game has gotten.

While every other ballistic weapon got a buff to ammo/ton and damage/ton, the MG got severe nerfs (-90% and -80%, respectively).

While every other ballistic weapon got an increasing damage buff the lower the weight - from 2.5x for the AC/20 to 20x for the AC/2, the MG got the lowest buff of them all, despite it being the lightest ballistic.

It has the slowest projectile speed in the game, at 100 kph. I haven't tried it, but you should be able to outrun a MG bullet.

It has the lowest damage per ton of ammo of any weapon by a factor of 2.

It has the lowest projectile damage of any weapon by a factor of 20.

They took what was basically a very short-range AC/2 and turned it into [redacted]. It needs to be fixed, and not by making it a "crit weapon" - effectively denying all of us a ballistic option below six tons - but by buffing its damage by at least a factor of 3.

Its 100m/s, not 100k/h. Though, that does bring up a funny thought of a Light mech hauling *** and swarms of MG bullets following behind. Its like the Matrix yo!

Edited by Trauglodyte, 17 March 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Some people use MGs on "troll" build, but if you're using a mech armed with lots of MGs the only people you're trolling are those on your team. Currently it's a weapon that doesn't do damage. It's about as useful as a frying pan with a hole in it.

Certainly, it does have that "crit" ability, but armorless sections can be destroyed so quickly with real weapons that I see no reason to risk getting into that 90m knife fighting range when the items your targeting and many items you cannot target (the important ones such as engines and cockpits) will be destroyed when the section is blown up anyways.

AMS, while not very effective against short range missiles, does something and that makes it a better choice than the MG always. Then again, anything is.

[Davers]

FrostCollar, on 17 March 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

AMS, while not very effective against short range missiles, does something and that makes it a better choice than the MG always. Then again, anything is.

I heard somewhere that a 4 MG build really does shred internals, but honestly the mechs with 4 ballistic slots really don't have a choice what they run with.

But yeah, 1.5 tons of ANYTHING is pretty much better than a MG. The only thing it is better than is having 1.5 tons of unused space, but even then it is only marginally better since unused space doesn't explode if shot.

[Team Leader]

Mokey Mot, on 17 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

A good premise, but they alway were useless, and PGI, IMO, has made them useful again with the crit buff. And yes, you could just blow out the section, but the bonus of negating damage by almost instantly destroying a weapon far outways the alternative. Finally, I wouldn't be putting them on a mech that has the capability of blow a component of quickly, they are better suited for lights.

Not every mech has all it's weapons in one section. If someone has stripped an Alta's of its arm, laying into it with MGs will deprive it with a whole 1 medium laser. It would take you another 50 seconds with 4 MGs to break the arm off and get a chance to pick at his side torso. Not every component will have the armor stripped. Any weapon that relies entirely on a competent team to be effective and barely contributes in literally ideal conditions has no place in a competitive environment.

[Deathlike]

AMS > MG

Therefore, AMS is OP.

That means AMS needs a nerf.

Amirite?

[Flying Judgement]

Mokey Mot, on 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

They did get a buff...a crit damage buff...Just because a mech doesn't go boom when you shoot it, doesn't mean nothing is happening. I doubt they will ever get a damage buff, because with the RPM and zero cooldown, they would be abused by light and meds. They are crit seekers, not damage dealers. Throw a couple on a light, and let rip once the enemies armor is down, then watch their weapons blow. Will you get the kill? Probably not. But by making the mech combat ineffective, you are preventing damage to yourself and team mates.

sorry but its not true u cant take out inernals fast its just inefective.
and what if u did then u cant shot ur enemy anymore just look at him or run away ??? bechause i cant mount anithing on my spider and he have armor? what ? so i just dont use it at all what is sad i run a large puls laser and thats all but why confuse ppl that they thik they can mount 5 wepon in a cicada or a spider ? when in reality is just 1 or 2 in the cicada