251 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

A comma does not mean "stop reading right here because that is all there is to know."
The first sentence on that page: "...while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs."

[Tor6]

Kylere, on 18 March 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Muzzle Loaders predated the M16A1, but no one with a choice uses them.

Actually there are many people who hunt game with muzzle loaders because surprisingly enough they still kill things dead just as well as they used to. Also this is a bad comparison because it doesn't address what he said at all.

[Nankam]

Ground Pounder, on 17 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun


Nuff said...regardless of what folks want Machine Guns to be, They are, have always been and always will be intended primarily for anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle purposes and at best are a nuisance against enemy battlemechs.

Gl/HF
Very Respectfully,
Ground Pounder

Next time try to make it to the end of the sentence before stopping to read:

"The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs."

Edited by Nankam, 18 March 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[Vermaxx]

None of this would be an issue if the MG was effective at damaging battlemechs.

I don't care if it cannot be a "primary weapon." I want it to be MATHEMATICALLY SOUND to use them at all. The crit bonus does not outweigh the mathematical fact that they weigh too much for the amount of damage they can do in the same amount of time as a small laser.

I've actually come around on my thinking about the Flea, because the primary variant is full of ENERGY points and will therefore be stuffed full of small lasers. As such, it will outperform the ballistic Spider.

Edited by Vermaxx, 18 March 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Team Leader]

Vermaxx, on 18 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

None of this would be an issue if the MG was effective at damaging battlemechs.

I don't care if it cannot be a "primary weapon." I want it to be MATHEMATICALLY SOUND to use them at all. The crit bonus does not outweigh the mathematical fact that they weigh too much for the amount of damage they can do in the same amount of time as a small laser.

I've actually come around on my thinking about the Flea, because the primary variant is full of ENERGY points and will therefore be stuffed full of small lasers. As such, it will outperform the ballistic Spider.

All 4 small lasers it can carry! Watch out! Lol

*didnt check the actual amount of possible small lasers that could even be stuffed

[Heeden]

Team Leader, on 18 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

All 4 small lasers it can carry! Watch out! Lol

*didnt check the actual amount of possible small lasers that could even be stuffed

2 MPLas, 2SLas and 1 Flamer

[Vermaxx]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flea

Prime variant 2x medpulse; flamer; 2x small. Five energy points in a 20 ton mech and two of em are already two-ton pulses! You could easily gimmick that thing out to five mediums if you wanted to sacrifice speed. At the very least you could sub out the flamer for something that isn't terrible, like another small, and eradicate the ScatterGunSpider.

[Vermaxx]

Of course they're going to have a lot of problems coming up with three unique variants, based off existing models, at this point in the timeline, that are not simply inferior or MC mechs.

FLE-4: Large laser, two small, flamer.

FLE-14: Won't happen since it was a 15 ton prototype.

FLE-15: Two medium, two small, two machine guns, flamer. This one could actually show up. It would also baaa-low.

FLE-19: Eight light machine guns, two machine gun arrays, flamer, Rocket Launcher 10. 3068, cannot happen.

FLE-20: Two ER Medium, Light PPC. Stealth Armor and Guardian. GORRAMN IT, this one will probably show up some, making YET ANOTHER LIGHT with ECM. The fastest yet too. The Light PPC is YEARS AWAY, so they would have to sub in three tons of weapon instead. Also, the ER Mediums are a problem.

Fire Ant: Six machine guns, 3 flamers. It didn't show up until 3058/

So, there are two solid builds INCLUDING THE BASE, and one iffy third if they're willing to modify the Light PPC to something else.

[Mike Townsend]

The thing that gets me is if you were to build, say, a quad AC2 and dual ML Jagermech and a quad MG and single LPL Spider for tabletop, they'd actually have essentially the same DPS and alpha (the dual MLs puts out one more damage than the single LPL) and the only real difference is that the Jagermech would be hitting for eight out to the maximum range of the AC2's and only be able to add in the 10 damage of the MLs at relatively short range, with four chances to hit (or miss) at long range and a couple extra chances at shorter range, with a minimum range for the autocannon. The Spider would have an all or nothing 9 points at less range than the Jager, and only be able to pour on the full damage at point blank range. It'd actually be a better damage dealer at point blank range than the Jager due to the minimum range on the AC2. I'm not suggesting either of these are necessarily good builds for TT, just that their optimal damage is identical and only difference is the range at which they deal it. In MWO a quad AC2 Jagermech, while not a great loadout, won't be a terrible one from a DPS standpoint and its biggest limiting factor is going to be sinking enough heat to keep all four ACs firing. The Spider won't, under any circumstances, be able to deal anywhere close to the same damage as the Jager will, even at point blank range. Neither in alpha nor in DPS. This isn't necessarily bad, but it does help underscore that MGs aren't useless in TT, and any build which uses them much in MWO is significantly less useful than what would have been comparable damage builds for TT.

[Skyfaller]

jakucha, on 17 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

They're like micro autocannons, they should be useful en masse.

which is why ive been begging the devs to make the ballistic spider have 12 ballistic slots.

that many machine guns would rock so hard!

[Homeless Bill]

stjobe, on 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Don't feed it.

Very next post -->

Zyrusticae, on 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

This argument has been trotted out time and time again, and it always falls flat in the face of the fact that blah blah blah...

Seven pages later --> LOL.

[CrashieJ]

I will continue to use machineguns until

Sure, they are craptastic, but it's the greatest feeling to take down a lumbering 100 ton behemoth with the most peashooter-est weapon in the game... If I could use my AMS against mechs... I WOULD.

[EitherWay]

Quote

[color=#000000] while still being effective at damaging [/color]BattleMechs[color=#000000].[/color]

Seems legit. Idk what you're talking about op.

[SpartanFiredog317]

Ground Pounder, on 17 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun Nuff said...regardless of what folks want Machine Guns to be, They are, have always been and always will be intended primarily for anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle purposes and at best are a nuisance against enemy battlemechs. Gl/HF Very Respectfully, Ground Pounder

This is not the 1980s, and what we are playing is called Mechwarrior ONLINE... it is a videogame, played on Machines undreamed of back in your day. Take your anti-dakkaness and your mullet back to the 80s.... the rest of us, non-decrepit young people want a weapon that weighs ONE THOUSAND F***ING POUNDS to do some decent damage.

[SpartanFiredog317]

Meet the MK19: 1400m effective range, 300ish RPM cyclic ...Fires a 40mm round That can: "It can also punch through 2 inches (5.1 cm) of rolled homogeneous armor with a direct hit (0 Degree Obliquity), which means it can penetrate most infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers"

Been around since the 1960s, how much does this beautiful piece of crew served death weigh? SEVENTY TWO POUNDS. ....http://en.wikipedia....renade_launcher


...For slightly over 2,000 lbs, you can have a weapon capable of launching all kinds of 120mm rounds at the object of your hatred ... http://en.wikipedia....tall_120_mm_gun

any Machine Gun that weighs 1,000 lbs is not meant to soley destroy meatbags... Its purpose is far more grand.

[jay35]

Bluten, on 17 March 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Do you see infantry anywhere in this game? If the gun isn't meant to be viable, then even bother putting it in?

Because there are light mechs that need a single-slot ballistic weapon that's lighter than an AC2 and nothing else better than a machine gun exists that this time period in the BT universe.

[Aaron45]

Wether anti infantary or even anti mech. The MG feels useless- same with flamer. Buff it a bit- almost useless weapons are waste of Dev time- or just delete them and replace em with other similar weps (maybe ac1?).


Also PLEase drop the tonnage of the ac2 - to 5 tons- so lights could mount an ac2 easier.

All in all bring us more USEFULL weps. Thats all i want (No one needs Small Pulse Lazer)

Thx for paying attention.

Edited by Legolaas, 18 March 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Liege]

Weapon Matches Fired . Hit Accuracy Time Equip. Damage
MG 6 10,516 4,329 41.17% 00:34:06 200
that equates to 0.0462000462000462/per round hit...

*sigh* with a terrible hit %

Edited by Liege, 18 March 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[SpartanFiredog317]

jay35, on 18 March 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Because there are light mechs that need a single-slot ballistic weapon that's lighter than an AC2 and nothing else better than a machine gun exists that this time period in the BT universe.

.... A ONE THOUSAND POUND Machine gun, that fires a round that weighs one pound, or the equivalent of 16 .50 Calibur rounds....

[Tincan Nightmare]

SpartanFiredog317, on 18 March 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

.... A ONE THOUSAND POUND Machine gun, that fires a round that weighs one pound, or the equivalent of 16 .50 Calibur rounds....

Ok I don't care if they buff or don't buff the MG, but lets think about this. The Marauder has an AC/5 that shoots a 3 round burst of 120mm rounds. So your talking about 3 M1A1's firing their main guns at a target and hitting the same general location and doing the equivalent of 5 points of damage. The Hetzer has an AC/20 that shoots a 10 round burst of 120mm rounds, now almost the same as a full company of M1's firing together at the same target and hitting the same location. Thats a damn good indicator of the toughness of BT armor, especially as it is usually described as being depleted uranium AP rounds. All the people bringing up a real life GAU-8 30mm should also remember that it is mounted on an aircraft attacking ground armor hitting them where they have the least protection, their roofs. Its why M1's and modern MBT's carry main guns in the 120mm range instead of a GAU-8, they are hitting much thicker armor facing toward the front or sides. And mechs don't have roofs (well maybe their backs).

Also the concept that the MG is the light AC equivalent of the Sm. laser is wrong. It is the ballistic equivalent of the flamer, which falls in the energy class (at least the mech carried version). Look at their TT stats. The MG does 2 points of damage, range of 3 hexes(90 meters), 0 heat, weighs .5 ton and requires ammo (either .5 ton or 1 ton) The flamer does 2 points of damage, range of 3 hexes(90 meters), 3 points of heat, weighs 1 ton and might require more heat sinks be mounted but has infinite uses. The flamer and the MG are the energy and ballistic equivalents of each other, not the MG and the Sm laser.

Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 18 March 2013 - 11:02 PM.