443 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

What it feels like when I see a Flame in my Jagermech:

[marabou]

Dragons are awesome...When they are in the red team

Edited by marabou, 07 April 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

Ezekyle, on 07 April 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Defintely useless when it' some light 'Mech fething you up with SRM, aye.
This is a build I copied from a post in Smurfy's forum:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85f8f3eb32ecb2b
=> http://www.mechspecs...G-5N-Tenderizer

The before mentioned Flame as a quadruple PPC party cannon or the Gauss variant definitely look interesting. Big problem of the Dragon is, as already was mentioned, you cannot shoulder mount weapons meaning you have to walk from frontal cover - like the ridges in Tourmaline map at point Theta... think it's quite an advantage for a Jager Mech with it's high mount points to shoot from cover without presenting itself too much. Or maybe I'm totally wrong - as said, though I created my account already some days ago it's by now only a week I'm actually playing the game... and as my kill/death balance says, there's still a damn lot for me to learn
A fast and well armoured Dragon as a flanker like Grey Rabbit described is it's role as I see it but here it all depends on communication in the group. Maybe things improve if I should be able to find a pack of hunters to join with TS on and stuff.
But for now I think I'll invest some MC in buying a Dragon Flame

You might try a C1 with 2 erppc in the left shoulder. A left sloping ridge line allows you to get off shots with min exposure. Put in enough dbl heat sinks and it will throw out a lot of salvoes on chain fire.

[KuruptU4Fun]

You have to know how to build them and what to build them for.

Dragons are support brawlers, whether it's a A/C 10; Gauss; LB X-10 or whatever combination. Your job is to stick by the slow and pounce with them as a team. You walk away from the group, you will die quickly. You have to target your enemy and focus fire (on weak spots) each and every time....

[White Bear 84]

The dragon is a great mech to play with, did a four man with 4 dragons and as a mob we tore the team apart. I think if you use the dragon wisely it is great, just dont be stupid and run face on to a gauss or something, common sense really.

Have my best KDR's in the dragon, its a good versatile heavy.

[Noobzorz]

Ezekyle, on 07 April 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Defintely useless when it' some light 'Mech fething you up with SRM, aye.
This is a build I copied from a post in Smurfy's forum:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85f8f3eb32ecb2b
=> http://www.mechspecs...G-5N-Tenderizer

The before mentioned Flame as a quadruple PPC party cannon or the Gauss variant definitely look interesting. Big problem of the Dragon is, as already was mentioned, you cannot shoulder mount weapons meaning you have to walk from frontal cover - like the ridges in Tourmaline map at point Theta... think it's quite an advantage for a Jager Mech with it's high mount points to shoot from cover without presenting itself too much. Or maybe I'm totally wrong - as said, though I created my account already some days ago it's by now only a week I'm actually playing the game... and as my kill/death balance says, there's still a damn lot for me to learn
A fast and well armoured Dragon as a flanker like Grey Rabbit described is it's role as I see it but here it all depends on communication in the group. Maybe things improve if I should be able to find a pack of hunters to join with TS on and stuff.
But for now I think I'll invest some MC in buying a Dragon Flame

That's a perfect way of putting what I could not articulate! This is exactly what sucks about the dragon.

You're a hit and run mech that cannot skirmish. So instead what you end up being is a light hunter who can quickly run back to base or to support big slow dudes with enough firepower to make a difference. Except that you can't have ECM and streaks invariably hit your giant CT.

[Ezekyle]

Ryokens leap, on 07 April 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

You might try a C1 with 2 erppc in the left shoulder. A left sloping ridge line allows you to get off shots with min exposure. Put in enough dbl heat sinks and it will throw out a lot of salvoes on chain fire.

From scratch: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...036db54eb7fb4cc though I don't know if this Flame http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b97f94e2f89475a would do better, arr... need more credits for evaluation in field.

Dammit, really should see to improve my K/D ration from it's glorious 0.32 but do want to stick to the Dragon for a while on still... will see what the next weekend with some new loadouts and thoughtful *cough* piloting will bring, gakking feth or glory ^^

[Ryokens leap]

Ezekyle, on 08 April 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

From scratch: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...036db54eb7fb4cc though I don't know if this Flame http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b97f94e2f89475a would do better, arr... need more credits for evaluation in field.

Dammit, really should see to improve my K/D ration from it's glorious 0.32 but do want to stick to the Dragon for a while on still... will see what the next weekend with some new loadouts and thoughtful *cough* piloting will bring, gakking feth or glory ^^

Sorry I meant to write 1C. I run it lately with a 330xl, full armour, 2 erppc in lft shoulder and a srm4w Arti,ds,endo, ff, and the rest is dbl hs. Moves 98 kph and can chain fire erppc almost continuously. Is fast enough to handle lights with srms and an erppc thrown in when able. Runs great on open maps like alpine, caustic, forest colony and termaline. The Flame I keep either a gauss or ac20 in the shoulder mount.

[IraqiWalker]

I have seen so many builds that use the dragon in just the wrong ways. For some reason people have gotten it into their heads that they should equip long range weapons on it, and pick targets off from 900 meters. That's what you use a stalker or a Jager mech for. That's what you use Fire Support units for. It is EXACTLY what you DON'T use a FLANKER for. the maximum range you should be engaging in with a dragon should be 600. You're supposed to be the crazy **** doing drive-bys on the enemy team's rear lines. You're also the boogie man that all scouts try to hide from since you can run almost as fast as they can and you pack more than twice the armor and firepower.

A Dragon should never be used as a sniper. We've got catapults and cataphracts for that. Heck I've seen Spiders with ERPPCs that functioned as pop-tarts (jump snipers). A Dragon can be played as a sniper, but that's not where it excels. If you are trying to play this mech like any other heavy then you're doing it wrong.

This baby was built for speed and lots of bursty pain on your opponents' sides and rears. You're supposed to be the reason they always check their side and look away from the front because they know you're out there somewhere, just waiting to off load tons of lead into them. You're a flanker and a raider. If you want a long range mech use something else, if you wanna hide behind cover and engage in protracted sniper fights, then get another mech. The Dragon is designed to end those protracted fights in a quick violent fashion.

You need to be patient. Wait for them to settle into their pace, hiding behind a cliff, running around one side of it to pop out and fire on your team. Take the long way around, and when they least expect it BOOM, you drop on them like a falling elevator loaded with depleted uranium, and you explode them, or at the very least freak them out so much that they turn to you and try to focus you, but by the time they realize what hit them you're already gone, disappeared. With them confused your team starts pushing and gaining ground.

They turn around to fire on your team again, and BOOM, down goes the 6 PPC stalker for no apparent reason. They turn around and barely catch a glimpse at your silhouette, and forgetting to fire on your team again. Now they worry about you, every few seconds they will try to look back, and every time they get a flashing red indicator from getting hit, they will turn around to look for you. Psychological warfare that utilizes your speed is one of your best weapons, but YOU NEED TO BE PATIENT.

also, you need to know that you're riding a Dragon.

Equipping a mech for something it's not optimized for means it's competing with mechs that are optimized for that thing. Which means it has a huge handicap. That's why Dragons don't boat LRMs. Catapults do it better. That's also why they don't fight long range battles, Catapults, Jagermechs and Cataphracts do that better. Speed and hit and run tactics are where it shines. No other heavy can match it in those two aspects.


My advice hasn't changed, you wanna pilot a Dragon right, learn to pilot lights, play in a Commando for a bit, master the hit and run with that one, then jump into your Dragon, your play style will be very different from that of transitioning from another heavy into a Dragon.

[RowanE83]

I've never really driven a dragon. Can anyone shed light on why the Dragon did so much better than the other heavies, in the recent tournament?

[Roughneck45]

RowanE83, on 13 April 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I've never really driven a dragon. Can anyone shed light on why the Dragon did so much better than the other heavies, in the recent tournament?

Just the way the points system worked.

Probably had lots of speed, narc and TAG, so for his top 10 he probably got assists on all 8 with those systems.

Edited by Roughneck45, 13 April 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Roughneck45, on 13 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Just the way the points system worked.

Probably had lots of speed, narc and TAG, so for his top 10 he probably got assists on all 8 with those systems.

That's another way of using them, I'd prefer to put TAG and NARC on lights instead of a Dragon since it can brawl far better than any light can. I just can't wait for the LB5X to come out, that weapon is perfect for the Dragon.

RowanE83, on 13 April 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I've never really driven a dragon. Can anyone shed light on why the Dragon did so much better than the other heavies, in the recent tournament?

People played to the Dragon's strengths, lots of speed, probably relied on using ballistic weapons more than beam and missile weapons, and just went from cover to cover and flanked. The Dragon pilots also get so much assist points because they are usually spotting for their team simply by hitting the enemies from the side or rear, and if your team has even one LRM equipped mech that's a whole lot of spotting assists.

I would also guess that the Dragon pilots really focused on not brawling with the heavy and assault mechs as much and ran the lights and mediums down instead.

One of my friends is doing the finishing touches on an all Dragon lance that he is building. 4 Dragons each with a specific set up. They will be using multiple variants I believe. With maybe one Fang or Flame in there.

[Silentium]

The dragon....what I like:
Speed, maneuverability, versatility

What I hate:
The center torso. OMFG, I hate that. That mess somehow draws ct hits from nearly any angle.

[Echo6]

Artgathan, on 18 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

A few threads have popped up here recently discussing competitive play balancing and overall chassis balancing (such as 'Is every chassis viable for competitive play?'). The general consensus appears to be 'no'. I've seen a lot of players claim that the Dragon is a "trash chassis". I'd like to know why (I've never piloted a Dragon, aside from a few trial mechs a long time ago, so I don't have much insight).

Is it the hardpoints? Is it the way the hardpoints are distributed? Is it the size of the CT? Is it the Torso Twist?

Please be specific about what you think the problem is. I'd like to get discussion going about:

1. What the Dragon's problems are, and
2. What we can do to fix them.

I'd like to see all mechs have a place in competitive play. Variety is good. The point of this thread is to analyze the problems underlying balance issues, and see if we - the players - can find solutions to help level the playing field.

Their competitiveness is a canon deal if I recall correctly. House Kurita produces lots of these in shiny new factories; they essentially outnumber (because of relative cost),other heavy mechs, i.e., yeah, a warhammer or marauder is better than a dragon, but they're not better than two or three dragons.

[Sphera]

who cares

[Versailles]

Making good use of the hardpoints is one of the keys to effectively using a dragon. At first I hated the dragon. For instance, the shoulder mounted energy hardpoints are great for sniping. You can poke your head and laser of a crest and take a potshot, and then relocate quickly without having exposed yourself to danger. This negates the problem of the huge CT. If you also set up the arm hardpoints with medium lasers, you can very easily track light mechs. With a few adjustments to your play style, tehy can be very fun and effective.

[IraqiWalker]

One thing I forgot to mention.

One of the more superior Dragon builds: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d7fd4f911346076

This thing hits like a runaway depleted uranium filled elevator the entire time.

[Duckwalk]

The "fix" for medium and light heavis is to reinstate economies and make it prohibitively expensiveto run the heaviest mechs.

Mediums claim their rightful place as the workhorse of the mechwarrior universe. Individual mechs would recieve discounts based on house affiliations. Merc would earn larger credit earning potential overall etc.

Repair and rearm cost in community warfare would be substantially affected by the tonnage/type of mechs a unit decided to bring to a fight.

Essentially you need economy as another balancing option in leui of direct bonuses given mechs in orderto solidify specific roles and balance them. Eg. Dragons get 10% bonus damage when attacking from behind because they are "flankers"

^ i dont think anyone wants that

Edited by Duckwalk, 15 April 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[Kamelkaze]

I love the 1C with 4PPC. A decent and underrated snipermech, which right used with cover, just point a small hitbox to the enemy mechs especially another sniper!

Edited by Kamelkaze, 15 April 2013 - 02:11 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

RowanE83, on 13 April 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I've never really driven a dragon. Can anyone shed light on why the Dragon did so much better than the other heavies, in the recent tournament?

Because Dragons are great mechs and lots of other heavy players like to bash them due to not knowing how to use them right. In steady hands Dragons are deadly in /almost/ any role. Almost. They do have limitations--ones that you can work around if you know what you are doing.