22 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

People complain a lot about LRMs, I really dont see a huge issue with them


However one of the dumbest patch changes was lengthening how long you maintain lock after losing all line of sight to target.

Usually this is a non issue but at medium ranges LRMs will simply go right over buildings and keep tracking you, seconds after you are safely behind cover. This is especially hard on slower mechs, as even if you are a good pilot and move from cover to cover you can still get nailed occasionally by a ~90 dmg LRM burst.

This is a RARE event its true, but when it happens its obnoxious and inexcusable, and if it ever happened in a match that mattered (like an 8 man) id prolly rage pretty hard.

Now seconds may not sound long, but anyone whose gotten hit by LRMs behind cover knows how ridiculous it feels.

THE DAMAGE of LRMs does not bother me, but since the counter to LRMs is cover, lets make cover actually work reliably against them shall we?

Why were LRMs so much more fun to use\balanced back in CB?

Edited by LordBraxton, 18 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Davers]

With 2 module upgrades you can maintain LRM lock for 3 seconds after LOS is broken. Of course, it's possible someone else was spotting for the LRM boat too.

NEED MOAR TALLER BUILDINGS!

[Serapth]

Yeah, ive certainly noticed this. More so on Alpine, I have gotten the incoming missile warning, dropped down the hill then ran at a 90 degree angle out of sight at 100km/h and still been hit... like 6 seconds later. Then again, Alpine is just stupidly broke,

I swear ive had missiles round a 90 degree corner and kill me, 2 or 3 seconds after I rounded the corner!

It doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, it is rage worthy. I only noticed it after the last patch though.

Edited by Serapth, 18 March 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Sheraf]

I don't know about you. Cover works very good for me.

[Asmosis]

er, pick better cover.

If you duck behind something and then stand still, the lrms are going to hit you regardless of lock condition since they go to last known location. if you drop out of LOS in caldron (or a random alpine hill) hang a 90 degree turn or you are still going to take a direct hit if you dont change angle.

[Serapth]

Asmosis, on 18 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

er, pick better cover.

If you duck behind something and then stand still, the lrms are going to hit you regardless of lock condition since they go to last known location. if you drop out of LOS in caldron (or a random alpine hill) hang a 90 degree turn or you are still going to take a direct hit if you dont change angle.

This is exactly what I've done. Dropped off the top of the hill in Alpine, ran at a 90 degree angle for about 5 seconds... still got hit.

[Titus Ryan]

Don't forget that if you are re-targeted that the missiles will course correct, so maybe another enemy targeted you and the enemy launching reacquired lock.

[Triordinant]

My understanding is you can spend 12,500 GXP and 6 million CBills to unlock and then purchase the Target Decay (Rank 2) module for your mech. It allows the target lock to continue for 3.5 seconds after losing line of sight. Theoretically, it sounds like the missiles will home in for 3.5 seconds after the target takes cover no matter what direction it goes.

[Taemien]

Just an FYI, missiles were far worse in Closed Beta.

Just simply ducking behind cover isn't enough, you've got to break the lock. You should just assume that the mech you see on a Ridge 800m+ is locking on. Then react to that. If you wait for the missile warning, its probably too late except for the most skilled of pilots.

Also missiles will track the last location that the lock was maintained. If you're still standing there, the missiles will hit. You need to drop behind cover then move to the sideL

[Serapth]

Taemien, on 18 March 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Just simply ducking behind cover isn't enough, you've got to break the lock. You should just assume that the mech you see on a Ridge 800m+ is locking on. Then react to that. If you wait for the missile warning, its probably too late except for the most skilled of pilots.

If so, this is unbelievably stupid, but fortunately isn't true. 9 times out of 10, if someone fires missiles at you from 800m, unless you are completely out in the open, dropping down the hill and running when you hear missile lock is more than enough to save your bacon.

At least, it has been until this point. In the most recent patch, something changed. Again, its mostly Alpine I have issues with, so it may just be the line of site code in alpine.

IF getting a loc from 800m == gonna get hit, this game is as good as toast playbalance wise.

[zhajin]

with all the new modules, artemis and the changes to missle flight paths, its getting harder and harder to avoid lrms. i think this is the major reason people are complaining so much lately. all the new tech is having a bigger impact on lrms than any other weapons.

[Taemien]

Serapth, on 18 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

If so, this is unbelievably stupid, but fortunately isn't true. 9 times out of 10, if someone fires missiles at you from 800m, unless you are completely out in the open, dropping down the hill and running when you hear missile lock is more than enough to save your bacon.

At least, it has been until this point. In the most recent patch, something changed. Again, its mostly Alpine I have issues with, so it may just be the line of site code in alpine.

IF getting a loc from 800m == gonna get hit, this game is as good as toast playbalance wise.

You sure you don't have a ecm mech spotting you? They can be hard to see on that map. I know when I run ECM I frequently can get behind the enemy team and sit there targeting them for my team. If I wasn't so damn trigger happy, I could probably sit there all game without being noticed. You won't get the Low Signal Message if they are more than 180m out. In addition they can spot from 750 out, over 1000m if they have the sensor module. I've been able to spot with BAP over 1100m. You can't really see mechs that far out, even with thermals.

Thats typically how I get hit behind cover, there's a little ******* somewhere being a little snitch. I've used LRMs a bit here and there so I know how exactly to avoid them. I'd recommend everyone to give them a shot. Things don't seem so OP when you know the ins and outs of a weapon.

Just remember, usually if you're getting hammered by LRMs, its a team effort. Solo LRM users aren't hurting anything. I personally won't run LRMs as a primary weapon if I'm running solo.

Edited by Taemien, 18 March 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

do the shutdown trick.
it's what it is for, and now we have a reason to use it.

if you shut down when the lrm is above you they don't get to make the turn to hit you because your mech is offline

*edit:
unless you're being tagged by someone else that you missed! -
oh and i wouldn't use this without the faster shutdown/powerup elite unlock

Edited by Mazzyplz, 18 March 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[One Medic Army]

That's about the only part of current LRMs that annoys me, breaking LoS=/= breaking lock.
Which is a shame on some maps, or in some locations, where there's plenty of terrain, but not much actual cover.

[Team Leader]

Davers, on 18 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

With 2 module upgrades you can maintain LRM lock for 3 seconds after LOS is broken. Of course, it's possible someone else was spotting for the LRM boat too.

NEED MOAR TALLER BUILDINGS!

We really do. It's hard to hide 30 foot mechs behind 15 foot tall space7-11s and 30 foot tall flat boxes. You'd think the cities would actually have buildings taller than 4 stories.

[Corbon Zackery]

Its not really patch but a module that allows for less signal degradation. This allow you to keep the lock longer even if your behind cover.

[Skyfaller]

zhajin, on 18 March 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

with all the new modules, artemis and the changes to missle flight paths, its getting harder and harder to avoid lrms. i think this is the major reason people are complaining so much lately. all the new tech is having a bigger impact on lrms than any other weapons.

Really? Lets examine that comment shall we?

Changes to missile flight paths: They no longer fly so high and dive down on target. This is good for those in cover because missiles no longer fly over it and dive down on your head.

New modules:
Range modules have nothing to do with LRM flight path. Besides, if a 10 second (max range) warning to get your butt in cover isnt enough the trouble then lies with you.
Target-retaining module after 3s of lock being lost: Think about it. When is the only time the missile mech loses lock? OH RIGHT! When target goes behind cover! Does maintaining lock for 3s help? Only if he's behind visual not hard cover (aka a short building and he's not next to the building but 100m behind it.. the missiles can still hit...but then again, thats BAD use of cover to begin with.

Artemis? Oh hai, I am happy to inform you artemis ONLY works when there is a line of sight.


In conclusion, NOTHING has been done to make it harder to avoid LRMS. The fact is, the only change to the missile flight behavior was changed to benefit those taking cover (and rightly needed). If you are getting hit by LRM's its for one reason only:

There is no object tall enough to cover your mech between you and the incoming missile swarm.

That's it. The fault of getting killed by LRMs in long range fights (not when you're brawling vs another mech and lrms hit you) absolutely lies with the person getting hit.

[Calamus]

Easy solution. Don't get caught out in the open when you know there is LRM support on the other team.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Titus Ryan, on 18 March 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Don't forget that if you are re-targeted that the missiles will course correct, so maybe another enemy targeted you and the enemy launching reacquired lock.

this

[Aim64C]

I actually try to break lock on occasion when I know my target is going behind cover. I try to gauge when my missiles have passed most of the cover, then lock on again (only works if someone else has a good lock, or if my target decay somehow allows for it... but that's rare).

Even if I lose lock immediately afterwards - the course correction is usually in the walking/running direction of the target - so the missiles hit.

Granted, if I have time to be trying that - someone needs to start running me off with autocannon fire (or, hell, LRMs of their own; just because I shoot the things doesn't mean I want to eat them).

Nothing in the updates has changed the way missiles behave.

That said - if you're getting hit behind cover, you're not behind the right cover. Hills work for breaking LOS - but if the launching mech has any elevation on you when he fires, the hill is going to be pretty useless to stop those LRMs. Since you're relying on a lot of LOS counters on maps like Alpine (where there is still a lot of cover), you have to keep in mind that any time you pop back into sight (for any mech on the enemy team who might have you targetted) - it resets the target decay.

Anyway - sometimes, you find yourself in a situation where you've got to 'tank' against LRMs. The best way to do that is to do the MechAssault-Shuffle. Run 90 degrees, then, when the missiles are within about 200 meters, cut 45 degrees ahead of the missiles, pulling to 270 degrees 'into and around' the missiles (relative to your original 90 degree vector). MWO missiles are not quite as easy to avoid - but the principle is very similar, since the missiles in this game 'chase.'

This is how I am able to go toe-to-toe in an LRM brawl with a decked-out Stalker in my Catapult C1 (2 LRM 15s in a heavy vs 2 LRM20s + 2 10s and what-not). So long as his team and my team let it be a circle of equals - I will kill just about any missile stalker - even if I've been chewed on by his team for a bit, beforehand. I can dodge a good portion of his LRMs, and what does hit me, I can mitigate pretty well with good torso twisting.

That, and most LRM boats don't seem to know what to do when a crazy catapult comes out of left field and starts giving them a taste of their own medicine while dancing through the rain of explosions.

Unless the rest of the team gets in on it, that is... then it's kind of suicidal. But that's what makes it fun.