73 replies to this topic

[Rocdocta]

I hear people saying that if your K/D ratio is not positive then you are a bad pilot. But then as I am piloting jenners soley in PUGs i just cant do enough damage to rack up the kills. Even in an assault mech i dont get many kills. i find i do alot of damage but then die horribly after being focused upon. What would be a better stat to guage effectiveness? it doesnt bother me as its a game that is great fun. Just wondering how seriously other people take their K/D ratio.

[Komtur]

I think, there is a problem with this statistics.
My wins/losses are the same as two weeks ago. I am playing every day for 2 - 4 hours and the shown data is the same since some days.

[Khobai]

KDR is a bad stat because kills mean absolutely nothing. It just means youre good at getting the last shot in and kill stealing.

A better statistic would be damage done divided by damage received

[Corwin Vickers]

Some mechs are better at dealing damage, others are better at getting kills, and yet others are useful for getting targets for their team, capping points, and scouting.

Don't you have a feel for what's good for you on a certain mech?

I've been trying to get 1600 damage. My max is around 1540 right now. But on my spider, more than 300 damage is extremely good.

[Primetimex]

My KDR has tanked since the new ELO has kicked in, before that it was steadily increasing as I was getting in a lot of kills. Now, I find that while I do get the occasional kills, I tend to act in the role of brawler, supporting the PPC / long range mechs in my team - and covering for them while they cool down in between firing, so while they tend to finish off mechs, I make sure that the enemies don't swarm them during cool down and I mess up enemies mechs' enough for them to finish off.

So KDR really doesn't mean much, more importantly is are you fulfilling your respective roles effectively in your team - and if you are then your W/L should be improving.

[Khobai]

Some mechs also die more than others. Thats why damage received is more fair than deaths. Because if you die in an Atlas you should be penalized more than if you die in a Spider. And damage received would reflect that since it takes more damage to kill an Atlas.

That is why damage done vs damage received is a far better metric than KDR.

[Ralgas]

If you're fulltime pugging, none of the stats other than dmg done and hit % mean squat. The reason being your k/d and w/l ratios are totally dependent on 13-15 other strangers.

And organized 4 man or better should start looking at W/L, but even then there are limits

[cicadacoup]

Problem with damage done vs damage received is that it rewards poor aim.

[Mahws]

Damage done is almost as meaningless as kills or deaths, as is damage taken.

Light mechs take less damage because they rely on speed rather than armor, ten points of damage hitting the centre torso of your enemy is worth much more than an LBX10 shot that delivers ten damage spread out across the entire mech. Digging your way through both arms and a side torso deals more damage, a clean kill does less damage and helps your team more.

There's really no simple accurate measurement for player skill for MWO.

[Ralgas]

Khobai, on 18 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Some mechs also die more than others. Thats why damage received is more fair than deaths. Because if you die in an Atlas you should be penalized more than if you die in a Spider. And damage received would reflect that since it takes more damage to kill an Atlas.

That is why damage done vs damage received is a far better metric than KDR.

Penalizes brawlers and inflates support mech (see sniper/lrm boat) numbers, random internal explosions also means it's very hard to find a baseline/proper comparison. It's also another reason R&R for repairs should stay permanently dumped.

[Revorn]

I go for support Role in my Cent. If the Situation is for, i try to cover my Teammates Back or try to deny the Enemy easy positioning. this leads to less Kills and even to less dammage i do. I also always carry a AMS to give additional protection for my Teammates, wich leads to a bit less dammage as well.

But who cares. Playing this Role is fun for me and my Teammates can focus on Kills.

Edited by Revorn, 18 March 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[M4rtyr]

Ignore your K/D, in a game like this is largely luck who gets the killing shot when you have multiple people shooting a target.

If you want to place any importance on stats it would be your victory ratio and maybe accuracy. But even then, if you are puging its largly random if you win or not, not a sign of skill.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Win/Loss is the Stat that really matters.. You can all the 5 kill games you want and have a KDR of 8+. But if you your WIn/Loss rate is less then 1 your not a real help...

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Rocdocta, on 18 March 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

I hear people saying that if your K/D ratio is not positive then you are a bad pilot. But then as I am piloting jenners soley in PUGs i just cant do enough damage to rack up the kills. Even in an assault mech i dont get many kills. i find i do alot of damage but then die horribly after being focused upon. What would be a better stat to guage effectiveness? it doesnt bother me as its a game that is great fun. Just wondering how seriously other people take their K/D ratio.

There are people who can get all the kills in the world, but they'll do it at the expensive of their team.

Plus you have those people that go NUTS to get the last kill even when a mech (stalker, hunchie) is totally stripped and there are still other mechs to be killed. Any KDR near 1 is very respectable, 2 is just awesome... anything about that I would think the personal may be specializing.

W/L mean more to me. And anything approaching 2 is awesome (with more weight being put on the post ELO W/L) and approaching a 1 is where the average player will hopefully get to.

Ralgas, on 18 March 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

If you're fulltime pugging, none of the stats other than dmg done and hit % mean squat. The reason being your k/d and w/l ratios are totally dependent on 13-15 other strangers.

And organized 4 man or better should start looking at W/L, but even then there are limits

While at the mercy of others, with ELO it should equal out. Those with higher ElOs you'd imagine would work well in teams, but that's not always, amazingly, the case.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Khobai, on 18 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

KDR is a bad stat because kills mean absolutely nothing. It just means youre good at getting the last shot in and kill stealing.

A better statistic would be damage done divided by damage received

How does one steal a kill in a team game.

That's like saying Michael Jorden stole a bucket at the end of the game as everyone on a team is lobbying for a 2 pt basket.

Perhaps if he did all the work going one side of the court to the other, and at the last moment someone grabbed the ball out of his hands and that person took the shot and got the final two.

Kinda have to think that in a championship game, MJ would care more about the final 2 points being taken by his team and they win (as opposed to the other side taking the ball and going to the other end or MJ and the "shot stealer" gets killed with an AC20 blast.

Kill stealing and cheese. Over used euphemisms.

[Kahoumono]

K/D does mean squat as most have said, I look at damage per match in mech stats this gives me a better picture of how I did.

[kiltymonroe]

I like the OP's logic here.

"They say a low K/D ratio means you're a bad pilot...but I have a low K/D ratio...so...there must be something else that means I'm a good pilot!"

[CheezPanther]

K/Dr cant really be a valid stat as there is a gap in PREMADE vs Lances vs PUGgin..

It can be manipulated by use of Lances and OP builds.... If one wanted a good K/Dr then when theyd play they'd get 3 other guys and run lances of 3L's or D-DC's., possibly even other builds will suffice... Then they just have to launch against unsuspecting puggies.. working together with OP builds, It ends up being a slaughter ususally with few deaths....

The same can be applied with OP builds and PREMADE 8 mans.. IT's been known to be done.. even veteran teams can fall prey to an 8 man 3L team..

The team % a lance occupies factors greatly into this.. If they didnt account for 50% of a team then Lances would be possibly lumped into puggies.. But it does occupy such a huge amt of the team that it does matter.. even worse a lance of pretty decent ELO will prolly get cannon fodder for temamates leaving most the kills for the lance.

Face it.. Lances in the current 8 man pug team setting are powerful and even more crazy powerful when using OP builds in their coordinated tactics..

[Khobai]

Quote

How does one steal a kill in a team game.

Uh for example if I do 164 damage to an Atlas, but someone runs in front of me and does 1 damage to the Atlas and kills him, thats a kill steal.

You have idiots out there that value KDR so much theyll run in front of you and block your shots just to get the kill. KDR rewards that kind of idiocy. Competing with teammates to get the killshot should not be rewarded.

Quote

That's like saying Michael Jorden stole a bucket at the end of the game as everyone on a team is lobbying for a 2 pt basket.

A better anology would be michael jordan scoring 50 baskets in one game, then scottie pippen stealing the ball from michael jordan, and scoring 1 basket, which happens to be the winning basket in the same game, and then scottie pippen winning MVP even though he only scored 1 basket.

The player who does all the work is not the player being rewarded. That is how ******** KDR is. KDR needs to just be removed as a stat because not only is it meaningless but it also encourages player behavior that is entirely contrary to teamplay.

Edited by Khobai, 19 March 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[Bhan Zor]

Khobai, on 18 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

KDR is a bad stat because kills mean absolutely nothing. It just means youre good at getting the last shot in and kill stealing.

A better statistic would be damage done divided by damage received

There is no "kill stealing" in a team game. Otherwise I agree with the first and last sentence.